Two Way Hard Three | Las Vegas Casino & Design Blog

Thanks to mike_ch for another set of construction updates from the field!

This time around we get info on Encore, Aladdin/Planet Hollywood, Palazzo, Bellagio, MGM Grand, The Mirage, Treasure Island and the last day of the Stardust!

Thanks again to Mike for providing this stuff.

The photos are up in their respective categories but to see all recent photos:

Regarding his question below about The Mirage, they have partnered with the Los Angeles Lakers to be their official Las Vegas hotel. Oh, and by the way Mike, that picture of Bellagio's front desk office - I've always thought that was a great space. Nice shot.

Okay, Mike's update is after the jump.

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** Mike's Update:

It's another picture update! Today's update, on Oct 31st 2006 (Boo!), will give you more of what you enjoyed before plus some projects that I haven't looked at in a while. You will also get to visit the Stardust in it's last full day of operation.

First of all, I found a new bus route today that not only avoids some bad sections of town I was visiting before, but in the time it takes me just to get downtown will take me to the Flamingo/Strip intersection. So expect more updates to begin around Bally's or Bellagio. I'll want to go back downtown sometimes and see what's going on at the Golden Nugget, but I'll probably be doing it less often than I was before.


Nothing new. Same location is curtained as last time. Something I did notice is that they're not only putting up new awnings, they're putting up new awning hangers (you know, the hardware bolted to the ceiling.) You can tell the old ones because they're thicker and larger, I never noticed how large the steelwork is on those hangers until now, they're almost a little too imposing. MGM's hangers have curly steelwork as well, but the steel is a lot less thick, and there's a wooden (at least it LOOKS wooden) orb in the center of every other hanger.

At the minute the hallway leading to the original room elevators is a line between MGM-designed Bellagio and the original Wynn-designed Bellagio. The area from the elevators past the buffet and the O theater is still untouched for now. I've always like Wynn-designed Bellagio but I have to admit it's become faded and a bit tired after all these years. MGM-designed Bellagio looks quite nice. Walk the main drag from the lobby right now and you can see what MGM Bellagio will eventually look like all over. The tables seem a bit more brightly lit and for some reason with the new awnings and carpet and designs, pre-existing things like the MGM light fixtures that have been around for over a year now seem less ugly.

I don't know, enough just seems to have changed that the casino feels re-energized, and there's a more complete vision makes you stop thinking "They've ruined Steve's interior decorating" and start thinking "Wow, this place hasn't looked so nice in years." Club Prive will always look out of place, and the newish iPod-derived signs bother me, but you can't constantly hit home runs.


There is now a gigantic mountain of dirt adjacent to JC2K. Unless they are planning to build the Cosmo out of soil, this seems counterproductive, but I'm not an engineer. Really, though, it almost looks like they're trying to build some sort of Disneyland coaster there (ride "Dirt Mountain!") instead of a resort.


On the outside, nothing major. They're now working on the framework for the new mall exterior.

On the inside, BIG CHANGES!

I would not yet say that Planet Hollywood is "coming together" as Hunter puts it, but I would say that enough area is there that you can get a sneak peak of what they have in mind when it does. Walking from re-decorated Bellagio to here I can tell you that they're not going to be able to compete with that them, nor Wynn, nor CityCenter, nor Palazzo.

There is almost physically a line in the room, whereupon the gypsy/pseudoislamic stuff ends and the new look begins. With these two themes literally next to each other; the new look is way, way better.

The new look is best described as "middle-class THEhotel." Those same colors and contemporary vibe given off by THEhotel are imitated but not duplicated, along with some colored neon and new table gaming setups and some other snazzy things. There is a walled off area nearby where the next phase is being built. The escalator to the upper level now connects the lobby to an area near the buffet entrance. From above, you can look into the walled-over area and see some flashes and sparks of welding and guys in hard hats. Also now walled off is the area that the escalator to the London Club area used to be at, and that wall is floor to ceiling.

Anyway, if prices are to meet appearances, expect PH to be competing with the likes of Paris and Mirage. Obviously there's a lot to do (including the whole hotel exterior) and it's too early to tell if it's going to be hurting because of the infamy of it's restaurant namesake, but even if it does that just means better rates for the rest of us. :)

The downstairs buffet has also reopened (it previously took up the upstairs space and seated people throughout an oyster bar, an italian place, and a steakhouse that are all closed.) It has new carpet, new furniture, new logo, new paint on the walls to continue the vibe. However, the buffet stations have not changed. A quality report will be posted on RateVegas in the next few days. I asked a waiter how long this has been here and he said "about two months" which sounds like it might be about right. If it is, I just didn't know about any of this until now.


In my haste to get to Stardust, I forgot to check out The Cafe. Sorry.


Today was the end of the line for the Stardust so I just had to go take a peek. I bought a pack of cards as an obligatory tribute gift back when Headlights and Tailpipes opened, so I didn't need anything to buy and it's a good idea because everything that said Stardust was being ripped off the wall. Yes, a few really obvious things remained but anything that could be carried out the door had already been done so by the vultures. So I was content to take pictures of what was left. By 3:30 PM stores were still selling over the leftover inventory at whatever they could afford, other stores and attractions had already moved out, even the sundries store was pulling things off it's shelves and packing them away. At the gift shop, plenty of the usual Las Vegas/Sin City shirts were on display, but the only thing left that said Stardust was mint tins. I almost thought of nicking one of the many little "Grab your Stardust memorabilia while you can!" signs among the empty racks of merchandise and taking it to the register and offering them $10 for it, but decided against it.

Bars and restaurants were already shut down, and of course the front desk lines were all set to check out.

There's more in the pictures, as there's not a lot to talk about here since at this point only the slot machines aren't acting like the place is already closed and the whole experience is like viewing a corpse. Good-bye, Stardust. Can't say I'll miss the hotel, but I'll miss seeing the name on the map. Why not just rename Echelon to Stardust? I mean, honestly, who's getting paid for that name? I assume Echelon will at least have a "Stardust Tower" or something. I hope the sign is quickly put somewhere on Fremont rather than fading away in the sun like the Treasure Island skull does.


More pictures of the Palazzo are included in this update. You can see that on the northern end facing Sands Ave things are still a mess, but over by the old lobster house (that old Walgreens sign still stands, inexplicably) things are really shaping up. I saw the backside from the Monorail but not with a clear enough view for pictures (the SEMA show at the Convention Center has made the Monorails crowded this week.) There's also now a pair of steel legs out front now that seem to be fit for an eventual marquee, so don't be surprised if you see a big Palazzo sign along the Strip marking what's still a construction site.


Of course all the fire damage is still on display, and the black netting around the base of the belltower is getting even bigger and more obvious. The BlueMan/Phantom banners were hung on cables connected up to the tower roof, just above the balcony. That equipment is still there even though the banners are gone, meaning the tower is covered in wires blowing in the breeze.

The Mirage:

Across from the lion exhibit, there is now a Los Angeles Lakers store. Anyone care to spin up a story on how this connects to the Mirage's theme? With Beatles stuff and Lakers stuff now in the Lion Tank store, the S&R lion merchandise that used to cover the store is being squeezed out. Which of course makes me wonder if the lion tank is not long for this world either.

MGM Grand: The World's Largest Ultralounge (thanks, Charlie!)

Like Bellagio's renovations but less drastic, carpets are changing at MGM. It's a good time, because in some places the colors are so worn that you'd swear there's a fog covering the floor. The area around Rouge (formerly Teatro) is already carpeted, and now a patch of casino adjacent to it is covered in curtains. The new carpet is very red, in an old-school casino sort of way. The colors make you think it will fade faster than the outgoing stuff did. Pictures of old and new carpet are included.

And that's a wrap.


Read archived comments (24 so far)
November 1, 2006 10:41 AM Posted by mike_ch

You just put that Venetian PR shot up in the gallery to prove me wrong, didn't you? (jk)

I'll confess and say I don't quite know the function of that kind of crane thing on the top of the belltower, except (A) I never saw it before, (B) the banner thing made sense, but then again (C) I never saw the drill holes until I looked closer at my own pictures.

I suppose this is a good reason to stop talking like an expert, though. Let's just leave it at this: Venetian looks ugly. There. :)

November 1, 2006 11:03 AM Posted by detroit1051

Great photos and narrative. Thanks. When I stayed at Bellagio, in mid-September, they said the high limit slot room, behind the craps tables, and the $5 slot area off the main hallway and toward the Buffet entrance would be renovated next. It doesn't sound like they've started yet. I am curious at what the renovation of the VIP registration/lounge area entailed. It was underway and scheduled to re-open in October. September was the first time Club Prive didn't bother me. Maybe that contemporary, dark wood theme will carry into the high limit slot room.

Planet Hollywood/Aladdin looks surprisingly attractive. I haven't been there since the year Aladdin opened.

November 1, 2006 11:16 AM Posted by Hunter

I refreshed some behind the scenes stuff for The Venetian and it brought that promo shot in - I guess it didn't come in last time... That's not part of this set and obviously older.

November 1, 2006 12:25 PM Posted by mike_ch

Detroit: I've actually seen the VIP area because one day while I was there they had the door hanging open and there were photographers there taking their PR file photos of the furnishings. I didn't take any pictures myself because I only had the cell phone at the time.

I don't know what the last room looked like to tell you what changed, but it also was dark with wood tones and some artwork on display, etc. No desks or anything had moved in yet. It's been a closed door ever since and I don't know how close to finished it was when I peeked in, but I assume not near done because I wasn't blown away or anything like I'd expect to be.

November 1, 2006 7:54 PM Posted by Devon

Mike, do you know where you found that print of the stardust? I'm starting to collect posters like that and already have some from the sands. Any info on if they're selling them would be appreciated.

November 3, 2006 7:27 PM Posted by mike_ch

Devon, that was behind glass in a case next to the check-in desk. I have no idea if they ever sold them. I know they weren't willing to sell that one because everything for sale with the name on it was bought except for mint tins, and people were beginning to ask about things that were not actually priced for sale by the time I came through about 11 hours until shutdown.

November 12, 2006 12:57 PM Posted by detroit1051

Leonard and I each talked about the Las Vegas Hilton on the "Elbow Through Le Reve" thread, but that's been closed for comments. So, I'll post here. Rumors are increasing about the demise of the Hilton. The Review Journal gives it 12 to 18 months before Colony tears it down and replaces it with something which will capitalize on its location next to the Convention Center:
"More on the mighty Las Vegas Hilton. Scuttlebutt that plans are in the works to implode the landmark in 12 months to 18 months is causing much heartache among workers. Hospitality industry observers say the move might be one of the best ways for Las Vegas to build on its already solid foundation as the country's premier convention destination. Colony Capital is in a unique position to build the Disneyland of the convention world. Hotel rooms, as in Orlando, Fla., could be largely midtier. Conventions, adjacent to the Las Vegas Convention Center as it is, would be its playground. And the biggest, brightest and glitziest entertainment in the world would be at its doorstep. For Las Vegas, there would be no better way to lure added business. And for Colony, there could be no better way to shoot cash flow into the stratosphere, which the Hilton has simply been unable to do for a string of owners over a quarter century."
Review Journal on LV Hilton

November 12, 2006 4:09 PM Posted by Leonard Stern

detroit: If you had the opportunity to review my last comments regarding the L.V. Hilton (before Hunter decided to shut down the ("Wynn Elbow" thread) I clearly agree with the fact that the hotel should now be razed in order to afford [Colony] the best use of that massive site they were able to acquire for a song. I don't understand why you even would assume that I would think, albeit, [the Hilton] having been the most revolutionary property ever constructed in Las Vegas at the time, that was actually DESIGNED IN 1967 and completed in 1969, could survive almost FORTY YEARS for Christ's sake. Regardless of whether or not my father designed the original International, which was Kerkorian's very first venture in the Las Vegas market, I actually believe that the aging property has already 'outlived' its viability by over TEN years to-date! So I have no argument with respect to that issue and I concur 100% with Colony's decision to implode it, evidently you did not catch my previous posts in connection with this very issue. You guys really need to start paying attention to what I have to offer here on this forum, because it is based on confirmed documented fact. Charlie, I accept your apology for your juvenile + idiotic post by attempting to make a mockery of me (if you actually counted "99 posts" attributed to me on this forum), might I suggest that you get out of the house more often (sorry I had to say that!), now, mike_ch I also accept your apology, however, your obvious reaction by jumping the gun and trying to discredit or otherwise challenge me was not only premature and, quite frankly, nothing but a feeble attempt at ataacking me but totally unwarranted. I realize that the majority (if not all) of you do not agree with my "anti-Wynn position", however, I am fully prepared to challenge any and all of you as to the accuracy and validity of EVERY SINGLE POST that I have made here. In the interest of my having provided total transparency, at least give me the respect of listening to what I have to offer up instead of constantly trying to attack my credibility. Grow up people!!! Hunter, I understand that Wynn Resorts is a paid sponsor of this site by the very presence of their obvious banner ad. That is perfectly acceptable as you cannot be expected to support this enterprise on your own. Being a public accessible forum, that does not mean that your contributors have an obligation to be Wynn supporters! That would be equivalent to Tom Cruise's commitment to the cult of Scientology!!! BTW - If you guys think that I am a fan of ALL of my father's work, you could't me more off base. He also designed Fitzgeralds (originally the Sundance Hotel/Casino) which is cuurently the tallest building downtown, until the current crop of condos are completed. That thing is an architectural disaster and a complete eyesore IMO, and my father designed that abortion! So you guys must realize that I do not discriminate as to my criticism of what represents "great" Las Vegas architecture...

November 12, 2006 7:20 PM Posted by Hunter

FYI, Wynn Resorts does not 'sponsor' this site in any way, though we do sell hotel rooms through their affiliate program, as well as those for MGM Mirage.

I welcome the discussion.

November 12, 2006 7:40 PM Posted by detroit1051

Leonard, why do you have to rant about everything? Your reply makes it sound like I was attacking you. I merely posted a brief mention from the RJ that I thought you, especially, would be interested in because of your previous comments about The Hilton. Your apparent persecution complex is getting tiresome. Everyone is not out to attack you. Grow up!

November 12, 2006 8:06 PM Posted by charlie

Some way to accept a kind apology. From henceforth you will now be know as "AJAX" because you are just so damn abrasive. A kinder, gentler Leonard is not meant to be.

Anyways, my attempt at mockery was quite successful...a few of us got a good a laugh at your expense. BTW, the website counts the number of posts...that's what the little numbers represent.

AJAX, you are quite an enigma. With all the bellicose rhetoric, you seem to hate this guy Wynn, almost your sworn enemey. Yet, you pay to stay at his hotel and own his stock. Wouldn't a man of principal choose to stay somewhere else?

We are not "paid" Wynn insiders. We probably all wish were, but we're not. However, I will gladly promote the good things about Wynn to my friends and colleages, and caution them on some of the limitations, as well, free of charge.

AJAX, its very simple. We like Wynn and you don't. And there shouldn't be anything more to it than that. It's no big deal. Vegas is big place and we can all be happy.

AJAX, do us all a favor and don't go to Wynn. I don't want to see you there. I want to have a nice time playing a few games of chance and having a few nice meals, and I don't want you there next to me badmouthing the hotel or Steve Wynn, dampening the mood and my spirits.

November 13, 2006 1:08 AM Posted by mike_ch

Leonard, you misread my apology, as usual. I was apologizing to Devon for my misdirected insult which appeared to be leveled at him, when it was really leveled at YOU.

I repeat my question: Do you get tired of us getting tired of you? At this point it doesn't matter that you're 'somebody.' You lurk on this blog and post your subjective opinions which usually go against the vast mainstream opinion of the actual paying customer (which makes me wonder who in Las Vegas is hiring you, if anyone, or if Steve Wynn was the last man to make that mistake in this town.) You ONLY appear when someone either "calls you out" or a post appears about one of your (least) preferred companies so you can pontificate about how terrible they are a few more times.

There is a slang term on the internet for this kind of behavior, a "troll." You may have something to contribute here as 'in the know' to all sorts of things we don't know. Curiously none of these things you can share, but everything you DO share can be found by someone with Google or a Las Vegas history book. Even if you do spill beans I'll never know about it, because I can no longer wade through your trolling and I've long gotten tired of laying out bait for you. The amusement is gone.

Everyone is always entitled to their own opinions, but you can't do that without looking down on others, calling them corporate plants (yes, I'm sure THIS blog is responsible for 75% of the occupancy at WLV!) and other names. So keep on bloviating to your shrinking audience, but I've had enough of you.

November 13, 2006 1:10 AM Posted by mike_ch

PS: The most unfortunate thing about your behavior on this site has been that you've dragged your father's good name through the mud with you. Think about that.

November 13, 2006 4:41 AM Posted by detroit1051

"(yes, I'm sure THIS blog is responsible for 75% of the occupancy at WLV!)"
Hunter, you're the most powerful person in Vegas!

November 13, 2006 8:22 AM Posted by Hunter

Do I get one of those big checks like they have in the Station ads or the lottery?

November 13, 2006 10:31 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

mike_ch + charlie: Personally, it is "I" who has had enough of the petty + personal insults that you two continue to keep hurling at at me simply because you do not share my viewpoint! YOU DO NOT KNOW ME FROM ADAM, therefore what gives either of you the right to continue spewing unwarranted personal attacks since it is clearly obvious that neither of you actually know what you are talking about most of the time anyways. Opposing viewpoints are what spark productive discussion, and I will no any longer tolerate these type of comments that are designed to be nothing more than defamatory in nature and are now beginning to approach libel! Listen, evidently you two are so hard-headed and one-sided that you refuse to even consider listening to someone, cleraly more knowledgeable + informed than you two appear to be, based upon your contributions on the subjects being discussed here. Quite frankly, I could give diddly-squat whether or not you two, or any of the other regular contributors for that matter are "getting tired of me". Freedom of expression, look it up geniuses! Who in the f**k do you guys think you are? Well it is I who am getting tired of you two! BTW, charlie, your assertion that I am a "troll" along with other assorted, unsupported fallacious statements meant to discredit MY reputation is pushing the envelope by approaching libel, so why don't you just shut the f**k up from now on and stick to the subject at hand instead of berating me. If you actually knew me personally, you would then be entitled to offer your own opinion + feelings towards me, whether or not they are either positive or negative, but since you don't know me, just go and crawl back into your little hole from whence you came...BTW, mike_ch I have been retired now since 1989/90 after selling my company, so I don't need Wynn's or anyone else's 'business' in Las Vegas.

November 13, 2006 11:14 AM Posted by mike_ch

Yeah. Whatever. I guess that does explain why you have so much time to argue with strangers on the internet.

Freedom of expression applies to public lands and government institutions, not private blogs. You're posting here because the guy who organizes this site has been gracious enough to give you the soapbox. I will admit I can't relate to the chip on your shoulder you carry about Wynn, his business, his resorts, etc. Nobody here can, although if the guy tried to sue the pants off one of us I'm sure we'd be bitter, too. That why I've said repeatedly that it's best if we avoid that particular grudge and talk about other things. That's called being accommodating, but you keep trolling Wynn topics and it's getting grating.

Curious that the guy who accuses people of being corporate plants throws around accusations of libel. I assume you'll now go back to SkyscraperPage or whatever other site you came from and tell everyone there that we're a bunch of Kool-Aid drinking Wynn fanatics who can't handle the truth (ex: your "truth.") Doesn't matter, anyone who looks at the discussions will see that myself and others only crack the whip at you after you snub other users, with only a couple exceptions like Charlie's original post in the five-star thread.

However, I'll leave you with this: If WYNN goes bust, or if Steve is eventually ousted from the company that bears his name on the door, I'll apologize about everything I've said here, because you were obviously able to see it coming and I wasn't.

November 13, 2006 11:55 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

mike_ch: FYI: 'Freedom of Expression' extends, under the First Amendment, to include a generous sense of "expression" whether it be verbal, non-verbal, visual or symbolic. A very broad spectrum is covered and otherwise permissible under law, subject to objective interpretation on an individual basis, in regard to the Free Speech component of the First Amendment, as stated in the Bill of Rights. Now enough of the Constitutional Law tutorial for today. You should be popping the Champagne by being pleasantly pleased, that as a result of the recent news regarding Jack Binion's newly "revised" relationship announcement with Wynn International [Macau,] which apparently got the attention of Wall Street today, since the stock spiked OVER 5 POINTS in early trading. You cannot imagine how much I would love to not only opine, but discuss in implicit detail this 'shocking' news and what affect/impact it presents for Wynn in Macau in the future...might there be trouble in Wynnland? I'm also somewhat encouraged that you at least are willing to give me some credit by attempting to even begin to understand the reasons for my bitterness towards Steve, had the same unfortunate situation befallen you, I wonder if you might have handled the matter as civilly as I have chosen to do. Words are just that, words.

November 13, 2006 1:34 PM Posted by Devon

Ok, trying to get onto a slighly more positive subject. Leonard, I'm a little curious to see how you feel about the entire Palazzo/Venetian/Palazzo condo property? (The actual property and not the actual business end)

November 13, 2006 2:18 PM Posted by Leonard Stern

Devon: Strictly, in pure architectural terms, I consider it (the entire Venetian property including Palazzo + the now proposed condo tower) to be on equal par with WLV. Although Palazzo is a 'themed' property by necessity in keeping with the original Venetian concept, sort of a phase two extension, Palazzo will be equal to, or exceed the construction quality evident in WLV. This time, Adelson retained Taylor International Corp. (the Mason family construction dynasty that built the original International and both MGM Grands for Kerkorian, they were also the general contractors for the Venezia tower @ The Venetian) From strictly a profitability standpoint, Adelson will prove, once again, that he will be on top of the heap in terms of positive revenue when comparing his eventual 7,000+ room property to Wynn's P.O.S., even after Encore is finally completed. You know that old saying in real estate; location, location, location, well a similar mantra exists in the gaming industry; profits, profits, and MORE profits, something that WYNN has yet to attain after a year-and-a-half in operation.

November 13, 2006 5:48 PM Posted by Leonard Stern

Yo, mike_ch: I forgot to mention earlier in response to your fallacious comments, that Hunter has already asked me if I would agree to furnish an interview here since the very first post I made on this forum. I have decided to agree to do so in order to be able to discredit both your (and charlie's) misguided mudd-slinging. PM Hunter and he will confirm this, so buddy, your contention "that the guy who organizes this site has been gracious enough to give you the soapbox" is complete and utter B.S., once again you are voluntarily pushing the envelope in what now qualifies as potential libel, trust me on this one. Both you + charlie appear to suffer from what experts refer to as "terminal cretinism', in other words, you are both complete idiots without any hope of recovery. So before you make any more false assertions that I am being allowed the "privilege" of posting on this blog, why don't you check with the "organizer" of this forum and get your f**king facts straight first. Trust me, you have demonstrated, by your responses, nothing more than being an obsessive, common moron as a result of your defamatory comments. Why don't you wait for my inerview to appear here, then maybe we will just [possibly] be able to have a truly constructive discussion on many of the points that I have offered up, if that is even within the realm of your limited brain cell knowledge base. Dude, don't stop taking your meds, it really is starting to seriously have a negative affect on YOUR behavior...

November 13, 2006 6:07 PM Posted by charlie

I made a sincere gesture in extending an apology, paying respect to your father, in an attempt to burry the hatchet, once and for all. But yours was a "conditional acceptance" at best. Referring to you as an enigma or AJAX, is not libel, it is all in jest. I'm not the one dropping extreme profanity.

Also, you can't credit me for the "Troll" comment.

I will again make an offer to shake hands and move on.

November 13, 2006 9:56 PM Posted by mike_ch

I guess at this moment I could whine and ramble on about constitutional rights that do not apply when submitting comments to someone's private internet forum, but I won't.

I don't know how this falls under slander and libel. I'm not a newspaper, I'm a person with an opinion, and opinions are not published as fact. Futhermore, being that you're retired I don't know how I can be hurting you financially or distressing you in any way other than that some pseudoanonymous stranger on the internet said hurt your feelings with the internet.

I think that you're severely overestimating your standing here, being that you have turned off almost every regular on the blog, but whatever. No skin off my nose.

November 14, 2006 9:45 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

mike_ch + charlie: I certainly do not expect that you, or the others here, will EVER agree with ANY of my personal viewpoints, particularly in connection with Wynn. In fact, I actually enjoy the challenge in deabting your (and the others') position. There is no question that this forum is pro Wynn-biased, to say the very least, and that is precisely why I am here - to furnish a constructive opposing point of view. The suggestion that I might be some sort of "bitter troll" is an absolutely outlandish remark since "trolls" on the internet hide behind layers of total anonymity and I have, not only offered full disclosure as to my identity, but have been both forthcoming + transparent. This is not the proper venue to discuss legal issues, however let me just clear up your previous misstatement, although this is a privately-operated forum, with a moderator (Hunter), that is accessible to the general public at-large, without requiring a membership fee or password to enter. Any FALSE and otherwise defamatory statements made against someone else appearing in written form, that can not otherwise be proven to be 100% acccurate, and exists as a matter of record, are considered libelous comments. Everything I have posted here thus far, which might be considered by some to be insulting or otherwise detractive of certain individuals, is based on recorded fact, and upon my own personal opinion/experience with a particular individual that was determined as a result of a relationship or actual association with that person. Derogatory opinions, however malicious, are not libelous if you KNOW the individual who you are criticizing and, porvided the statements are not fallacious, can also be supported by actual fact. If the derogatory comments are a matter of record, there would have been no actual harm to the other person's reputation. Your comment that I am "overestimating your standing here" is not a decision for YOU to make, but that falls under the responsibility of the moderator, if he so choses to ban me from posting on this forum. Now, that being said, I have been trying to make amends, only if you guys would just back-off and stick to the subject at hand instead of constantly attacking + berating me. If both you and charlie wish to get into a pissing-match, fine, bring it on, however I can assure you I will emerge the victor. How antiproductive would that prove to be? Any insults that I have made towards any of you are a direct defensive reaction
of your (and others) malicious comments directed towards me. When you guys are ready to put an end this really juvenile behavior, I can assure you that I will respond in kind...