Two Way Hard Three | Las Vegas Casino & Design Blog

June 23, 2007

Weekly Open Topic-June 23

Posted by detroit1051

Brian wrote, "I hope we get a new open topic section this weekend, this one is getting kinda long!"

Excellent idea. I'm sure Hunter won't mind if we start a new one.
I've got a question for you Californians: Do the tribal casinos have Class II or Class III slots? If they're Class II, then they are bingo games where you're playing against others in the casino instead of against the machine.


Read archived comments (68 so far)
June 23, 2007 11:45 AM Posted by mike_ch

I've only been to one tribal casino, River Rock up in the area where I used to live. The slots there were the same kind you see in the casinos here. Wheel of Fortune, Elvis, Five Times Pay, etc.

I can't imagine you were playing against others in the casino since I was there on a weekday morning when things were practically dead. California has given the tribes a lot of leeway to do things, including make the games as tight as they please.

June 23, 2007 1:03 PM Posted by Justin

I used to visit Cache Creek quite often when I went to school at UC Davis, and aside from the fake craps/roulette, all slots and table games seem exactly the same as Nevada's. As much as I'm in love with Vegas, I feel like there are only a handful (maybe four or five) hotel/casinos in Vegas that are nicer than Cache Creek. Anyone been?

June 23, 2007 1:41 PM Posted by Mark D

The only tribal casino I've been to is Thunder Valley outside of Sacramento on the way to Reno. It's hugely successful (I heard in the top five most profitable casinos nationally) and has taken a big chunk out of Reno's gaming revenue. I don't know what class of slots they have, but they looked like the normal variety. I was there on a Wednesday afternoon and the place was jumping. They have about 20 baccarat tables and people were waiting to get a space. Mostly asians from northern California. They just announced in the past week that they are going to build a hotel and spa and shoot for a 5-star rating. Station Casinos built and manages the place, but their contract is up in the next year or two and the indians have made it known that they're ready to take over. I heard Station makes about 80 million a year on the contract. There are only 225 tribal members in the United Auburn Indian Community, made up of Maidu and Miwok Indians, and they are each owners of the casino and receive per capita distributions.

June 23, 2007 3:22 PM Posted by Trewil

In the state of California because each of the tribes individually negotiates its gaming license directly with the state the types of games allowed and types of machines which can be played very depending on the casino, therefore depending on what casino you are at you could see type II, Type III or some sort of different rule set all together. This is also why you see different types of tables/machine games at the differing casinos. This also leads to the tribes paying different tax rates to the state, all quite interesting really.

June 23, 2007 7:58 PM Posted by detroit1051

In Florida, the tribes are limited to Class II bingo slots. However, now that Broward County has approved four casinos in four pari-mutuel locations, the Seminoles are claiming they are also eligible for Class III slots. The tribe pays no taxes, but most believe the Seminoles will enter into a compact with the state giving them Class III and table games for some percentage.
The Seminoles have done so well with their two Hard Rock casino/hotels and four or five other smaller casinos that they were able to enter the corporate world last year by buying the Hard Rock chain (except for the one in Las Vegas.)
The Class II slots all have bingo cards on either the top glass or at the top of the reel screen. Some players prefer them because they can change bingo cards if they have a "lucky" number. Also, there is some sense of anticipation for players because if a bingo hits when they hit the Play button, they know they will get a winning combination on the reels. On some of the bonus games, such as Aristocrat, if a bingo line lights up and flickers with flashes of light, it likely means the winning combination will be a bonus round of free games or whatever. Some manufacturers, like IGT, make a full line of Class II machines for tribal casinos, but others license the games to Class II box manufacturers. That's why, for example, you see Aristocrat games in Bally boxes or boxes made by Rocket Gaming which is exclusively Class II.
Here's IGT's Cleopatra game with the bingo card on the top screen:
Regardless of Class II or III, the players usually go home with less money than they came with.

June 24, 2007 8:26 AM Posted by Mark D

Here are some photos of the facades for some of the other buildings at CityCenter.

June 24, 2007 10:33 AM Posted by Molly

I made a mistake in my post on the open forums last time.

Oklahoma has 87 casinos, not over 30.

The nation's Indian casino gaming produced over $20 billion dollars last year alone.

Someone mentioned that he will still always come to Vegas due to the atmosphere, bright lights, fine dining, etc.

My point was that many people don't need that in order to gamble happily near home.

$20 billion dollars in one year has GOT to be having an impact on Vegas.

A poster above mentioned Thunder casino near Sacramento. That was being built when I still lived and worked at two casinos in Reno.

25% of Reno's market is (was) drive-in from California and if the Donner pass closes, you can count that weekend's revenue out.

For that reason and when the president of the Reno Tourism Authority (originally a top exec for Adelson here in Vegas) decided to move back to Vegas and simply commute via airplane to his job in Reno I knew it was time to get out of town.

That's when I moved here. From 1996-2002 I think I saw a dozen casino close in Reno and only one open.

Of course that included the Mapes, which was listed as one of the top 10 historical buildings in the USA. It made me ill that the city council was so excited about imploding it- scheduling it for Superbowl Sunday or some other 3 day weekend to persuade more people to visit Reno for the spectacular event.

As I write this, years later, I think it's still an empty lot.

So sad.

I always thought the ghost of the Mapes was responsible for blowing the infamous "Biggest Little City in the World" down shortly after.

Thank God I'm out of that hell hole. Believe it or not, it's more corrupt than Vegas.


June 24, 2007 2:56 PM Posted by Mike E

Mark, thanks for posting that. They are beautiful. I wonder how the veer facade will look from a distance.

June 24, 2007 4:09 PM Posted by Trewil

Ok... Molly

About your comment, according to LVCVA studies almost all Las Vegas numbers are increasing at a substantial rate. RevPar, ADR, Gaming Rev, Number of Visitors, Number of Room Nights per Person, Occupancy. All of which are up percentage points over previous years. The big thing here is the sharp increases in RevPar (revenue per room available to sell) and ADR (average daily rate) which both had sizable gains in '06 despite several thousand more rooms coming online. This means that rooms are selling for a significant amount more then they were in 2005, which is great news (well at least for those of us who live and work here, some of you not so much).

So it doesn�t seem that the "$20B" which you say is being spent on gaming elsewhere is really effecting the numbers that much. To emphasize this point LVCVA in 2006 did a study in which they asked gamers what there likeliness of visiting Las Vegas was when they considered that there were more places to play. The vast majority (64%) of people said that outer gaming venues would have no effect on the likeliness of them visiting Vegas. While a good percentage (36%) stated that they were more likely to visit Vegas in the future, despite having more gaming options. Less then 1% of people stated that they were less likely to visit because of other options for gaming. It seems to me that those numbers speak for themselves.

All that these little places are just getting them hooked on playing, and once there hooked they got to come to Vegas, and once they have played Vegas playing anywhere else is not the same.

June 24, 2007 4:53 PM Posted by mike_ch

Molly, I have numbers I don't want to air publicly, but I can tell you that for some gaming manufacturers (and I'm not talking a two bit operation), Las Vegas is a bigger market than tribal casinos. The sky isn't falling on the gambling industry here. If it was, I'd announce that I'm shutting off my internet and maybe come back to talk to you guys when I go move in with relatives I still have back in CA. Heh.

Reno's got a lot of problems, I wouldn't even put them on the same scale. And if you were there from 96 to 02 you saw at least more than one casino opening. One casino construction, sure, but there was more than one opening. I assume you're talking about Silver Legacy, but I know Flamingo closed and reopened a number of times under different names. I wonder what it's doing now, it's been about three years since I was last there. But if people didn't go any farther than Thunder, then Boomtown way out there at the edge of the line would be the first to go belly up, you think?

June 24, 2007 4:57 PM Posted by mike_ch

Mark D: Thank you for the link! And may I say, UGH! I can't believe they're going for the yellow spots on the Veer curtain. It looks too "dirty", and combined with it's leaning shape may make it look like the buildings came down with some sort of sickness. Okay, I'm kidding there, but really, ick.

June 24, 2007 7:09 PM Posted by detroit1051

I hadn't noticed the yellow freckles until now. Veer isn't appealing and does not impress me.
I don't know when CityCenter's website was last updated, but some of the renderings are new to me. The casino hotel is magnificent. It will be the place on the Strip. Go to the site, click on "Gallery" and when the casino appears, click on "Zoom". If the real thing is anywhere close to the rendering, it will be spectacular.

June 25, 2007 7:49 AM Posted by Tom M

Wow, I have to say that the spots on Veer are really ugly. And this is the building that is front and center to the project and blocks the view to the main resort from the strip. I am not sure how Leonard can claim how great this is if this is what it will look like. I remain hopeful that this is some type of mistake or early rendition.

June 25, 2007 11:45 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

detroit: See, I told you so. Now that more + more details have been released for the Pelli tower, including partial on-site installation of the various glazing types, there is no question that this tower will be one of the most spectacular architectural masterpieces on the Strip for many years to come. Definitely creating a new "benchmark" for design excellence that certainly rasies the bar. Unfortunately, both Echelon + Fontainebleu will NOT be able to live up to this level. Cosmo WILL however live up to those expectations + the fact that it is actually designed to "integrate" with the CityCenter towers makes the whole project even more appealing. Let's hope that the New Frontier will not be replaced with a massive Plaza Hotel "replica", it's time to move on from all of these cheesy themes or just plain old boring uninspired reflective glass of the 1990's (like WLV/Encore). Even though Palazzo's facade + podium design are not to my particular taste since I cannot stand EIFS (Exterior Insulating Finishing System) i.e., solid foam-filled precast veneer which Palazzo's entire exterior incorporates because it's cheap, it will still be far more architecturally appealing than WLV/Encore to the "average Joe". The VEER renderings are NOT an accurate representation of the curtain wall. As is typical of Jahn, he is using multiple layers of finishes, so those "yellow spots" will not appear that pronounced in reality. In fact, VEER Towers will have one of the more complex curtain wall facades of any of the CityCenter towers, including Pelli's. It will actually incorporate numerous types of glazing that will not contrast as much as the renderings depict. VEER is certainly, without a doubt, the most "unconventional" design of all, it will be interesting to see how the opposite "incline" leaning towers concept appears in the wild. As I've said before, Jahn is an absolute master in multiple, even conflicting, window wall material treatment finishes, so let's wait + see how well he pulls this one off before jumping to conclusions. Of all of the CityCenter towers, VEER definitiely is the most risky + certainly pushes the envelope from a design perspective for Las Vegas, that is with the exception of Gehry's piece of crap being built downtown...

June 25, 2007 12:42 PM Posted by detroit1051

Leonard, thanks for the interesting post. Do you or anyone else know what's going on with The Harmon? Is it for sale yet? IS MGM having problems with the Light Group?

June 25, 2007 1:45 PM Posted by Mark D

mike_ch, I was in Reno last November and the Flamingo was stripped down to the concrete frame with no cladding at all, sort of what the Stardust looked like before they imploded it. Somebody said the new owner was remodeling and ran out of money, kind of like the Lady Luck downtown Vegas.

June 25, 2007 4:42 PM Posted by Molly

Trewil and Mike Ch,

I moved to Reno in December of 1996.

I believe Silver Legacy opened in 1995.

Let's see if I can remember the ones that closed while I was there. I'm including Sparks because it's all the same hell hole: Comstock, Flamingo (changed to Golden Phoenix), Harolds Club, Showboat, The Colonial,Carl Giudici's Gambler, The Holiday, ( Legendary Horseshoe closed a year before I moved there- same for Monte Carlo), Nevada Club, The Nugget, Pioneer Inn, (Speak Easy and Rocky's Sports Bar both opened and closed between 2001-2002/03), The Virginian, Baldinis, Victorian Gambling Hall, The Mint, Sierra Sids (tables only, I think).

Opened: The Siena and one out south on Virgina (I can't remember the name but I think the Carrano's owned it.)

Anyway, I was reading in the LVRJ that Nevada gaming had a great April due to the way the calender fell and they had a 1 1/2 billion dollar "win" off of players.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong with that number. But even at a monthly "win" of 2 billion dollars in Nevada, that's only 24 billion.

You think that 20 billion all across America doesn't represent many people who USED to come here?

I just think with that, combined with Macau, we're just not facing reality here.

The $20 billion doesn't represent bored Americans who just want to go somewhere to have a drink since these casinos are on sovereign land and you have to PAY for your drinks. They're also in the middle of no-where whereas the neigborood pub is just a few blocks away.

They're there to GAMBLE- something they couldn't do before unless they visited Vegas or A/C.

Of course you're not going to hear any doom and gloom reports- after all, Goodman still thinks the NBA and Nascar were hits here.

But I'll bet you many casino operators here are worried.

Reno has become just another California yuppy city.

The smartest thing one of the big players here could do is branch OUT into America and urge the tribes to let THEM manage them since most of them don't know what the hell they're doing yet.

All I know is that there are dealers across America making a hell of a lot more money than those in Vegas and I know of more and more dealers here moving out.

My former co-workers at Atlantis and Silver Legacy in Reno say the money sucks anymore. Of course it doesn't help that they're all minimum wage and always will be.

I have a friend who bartended for over 20 years at Atlantis and had the best shifts at the best bar (next to the Pit). He was STILL making $5.15/hr when he left the same time I did but his tips had dropped from $300/night over the years to about $100. This was when TITO started- and we all know how THAT affected tipped employees.

I have a stack in a drawer of 50 cents, 26 cents, etc. from other casinos. Of course no-one is going to drive halfway across town to cash one out. Of course that applies to all the ones I have been given here in Vegas, too.

Anyway, that's a whole OTHER issue.

I'm just glad I'm not in Reno anymore and am seriously considering moving back to the Midwest where I can make in two nights what it takes 6 or 7 shifts to make here.


June 25, 2007 7:41 PM Posted by detroit1051

Today's mail brought slot tournament announcements from both Wynn and Bellagio. They are both having $5,000 Buy-In tournaments. No, I'm not attending. The entry fee takes care of the cash prizes, and I'm sure they have calculated the average gambling budget for each of the attendees. These must be profitable weekends. Here are the details:
Wynn, July 19-21:
200 entrants.
Two separate, one day tournaments, "Five Star" and "Five Diamond".

Five Star:
1st = $400,000 Cash
2nd = $50,000 Cash
3rd-4th = $25,000 Cash
5th-20th = $5,000 FreeCredit
21st-40th = $2,500 FreeCredit
Total Prizes = $630,000

Five Diamond:
1st = $250,000 Cash
2nd = $100,000 Cash
3rd = $75,000 Cash
4th-6th = $25,000 Cash
7th=20th = $2,500 FreeCredit
21st-40th = $750 FreeCredit
41st-200th = $500 FreeCredit
Total Prizes = $630,000

Bellagio, August 30-September 1:
150 entrants.
Two separate, identical one day tournaments.
1st = $250,000 Cash
2nd = $75,000 Cash
3rd = $25,000 Cash
4th = $15,000 Cash
5th = $10,000 Cash
6th = $5,000 FreePlay
7th-10th = $2,500 FreePlay
11th-20th = $1,500 FreePlay
21st-50th = $1,000 FreePlay
51st-100th = $750 FreePlay
101st-150th = $500FreePlay

June 25, 2007 8:52 PM Posted by Molly

I forgot to mention one other thing.

When people bring up things like:

Vegas has the highest ADR.
Vegas has the highest occupancy rate as ever

Etc., Etc., Etc.........

I just want to say that adjusting and over-inflating numbers is probably easier to do in the hotel industry than any other industry.

I worked in that department of a major hotel chain for a decade and saw how my boss did it.

To read the numbers you'd think he was a millionaire.

Example: Comp and reduced rooms are rung up at full rate. So if you get an invite for a $99 room where the rack rate is $289 for that room,the books are going to show that the room was occupied at $289.

By the time it gets filtered through about 5 departments of auditing, write-offs and reports you'd swear a hotel was running with the highest ADR (average daily rate) and occupany of any of it's competitors when that may be the exact OPPOSITE of the truth.

I often ran 110% occupancy.

I'm not trying to talk down to anyone here because I know you're all very intelligent. I just want to explain this in case you don't understand how this works.

Let's say I have 500 rooms to sell on any given night.

I overbook anywhere from 3% to 10% due to a variety of situations:

1. DWF airport is closed for the night due to ice. Out of my remaining arrivals there are several who are flying in from DFW. Out of those only a handful will call to cancel, which means I can ring their room up as a "no-show" and generate more money for the hotel. If I were dishonest there are only about 200 ways I could bill a company twice for one room.

2. A particular client ALWAYS "no-shows" on his Friday night visits so I know I can safely re-rent his room.

3. Still another will come by and register, ask for a pre-paid receipt (wink, wink- he's got a lady friend in addition to his wife back home), return the key I just gave him and I know I can re-sell that room.

4. Truck drivers/airline pilots are required by law to take at least a portion of time off to sleep/rest so I know when they turn their key back into me at 3 pm I can rent the room out again at full rate.

I could go on and on but you get the picture.

My ADR and occupany shoots up. It doesn't represent the true numbers by any means.

When WLV opened that April by December he was giving away free weekends to taxi drivers- along with free comped meals and show tickets- in exchange for the hope they would advertise for him.

They didn't pay a dime. But I promise you their rooms were rung up at $200+, the meals they were offered for free were rung up at full prices and the show tickets were as well. To take it a step further, perhaps the taxi driver and wife didn't FEEL like seeing "Avenue Q" but because the tickets were handed out they counted in that night's show's occupancy.

Therefore, though a taxi driver spent $0 on those items, the books show more than $500 in revenue, which is later adjusted off.

However the official report that comes out shows $500 and not $0.00.

I doubt I should be saying this but I recently interviewed with (edited: a major competitor of Wynn) as an assistant to sales/marketing where I would be reviewing contracts.

When I looked at some of the contracts, it was STAGGERING.

I won't put out the numbers but believe me, this was a perfect example of how numbers can be formally "tweaked" in this industry.

If ############ is doing it, so is everyone else.

To sum up my thoughts on this, when I first moved to Reno I worked at El Dorado. Not a night went by in a year that we (at the front desk) weren't given liberty to capture a customer for as low as $30 a night if we had had empty rooms. We always did. (It required a bit of acting: "Oh, wait a minute. If you have a sec let me run back to my locker. I have a coupon there for a $30 room rate that's valid until next month. You might as well use it!")

I'll never forget one night when I sat down with my supervisor and just casually shook my head and asked WHAT in the HELL is going on????

He replied, "I know. When you can stay in our rooms all month cheaper than renting an apartment, something's WRONG!"

This is why I don't read the LVRJ Business page. It's pure fiction. And I have a stack of novels I'd rather be reading than wasting time on "facts" that are entirely incorrect.

Goodman says the NBA was a success. How many of you agree?

Goodman says Nascar was a success. How many of you agree? Certainly not the downtown casinos, which just about wanted to lynch him over their loss of revenue during the event.

The lies and mis-representations in this city go on and on and we just keep reading the articles and say, "Great! No need to worry!"

Sorry, but I beg to differ.


June 26, 2007 3:10 AM Posted by Mike E

Palazzo is now hiring:

One of the best ways to get a little bit of the inside scoop on upcoming resorts is to look at the job openings.

June 26, 2007 8:56 AM Posted by Hunter

Great post, Molly.

You're right that it is incredibly easy to play accounting games with those numbers - that's part of why they always have to go to great pains to explain that RevPAR and other metrics they use are NOT GAAP compliant measures and just 'industry standards'.

June 26, 2007 10:10 AM Posted by Brian Fey

Molly, or whatever name you are using these days... I hear what you are saying. But the bottom line is, nobody cares. There is one number that matters, and that is the company profit or loss. You can't alter those numbers. Its black and white, you either make money or you don't. The rest is just fluff.

June 26, 2007 12:05 PM Posted by marlymarr

Molly: That was very informative, thanks!

June 26, 2007 1:01 PM Posted by mike_ch

Hi guys, I've been very out of the loop because of other stories going on that you may have heard if you watch the news taking up a lot of my time.

I just want to mention that the Palazzo hiring process is getting a lot of attention here, as they've taken out plenty of ads and even KVBC was doing a big story on it. When Caesars opened the Augustus Tower, I saw some hiring ads at bus stations but that was about it. I haven't been here before when a resort opened though so I have no idea what's an "expected" amount of saturation.

I have a question though: Leonard was bashing the hiring process used at Bellagio's opening in a previous heated thread because they didn't move up Mirage workers. I don't know anything about casino hiring, which is why I was asking about this. I figured the jobs at Palazzo would be taken by the best regarded employees at Venetian. Is picking guys off the street instead the normal way of doing things?

June 26, 2007 1:19 PM Posted by mike_ch


I understand facts are easy to fudge on the hotel side. I've gotten nights at Wynn before mailed to my address 30 minutes away. It seemed that the only reason they were doing this was to keep their occupancy rate high.

But really, I have some eyes and ears, and those on the casino supplier side say Vegas is still far and away their biggest market, at least domestically. Keep in mind thought that the suppliers, manufacturers, etc for the Macau casinos are different for various reasons. I suspect there's a lot of favoritism to local regional companies there for whatever reasons.

June 26, 2007 3:49 PM Posted by Molly


There is a reason I use different names on different boards but it's a long story which I won't get into now.

You're right. The bottom line of profitability is what ultimately matters.

But you can create profit in many illegal manners, which is why my former employer was sent to prison.

Think about Enron. They were profitable, were they not? Who ended up paying for their profitability?

There's another "Enron" brewing here in Vegas, whether you want to face the fact or not.


PS. I'm sorry that your stock closed even further down today than yesterday. Tomorrow will most likely be worse. By July 30th it will be frightening and you can expect a VERY bad Q3 report.

(And I'm not saying that sarcastically. I really DO hate to see you lose invested money.)

June 26, 2007 4:15 PM Posted by BillyInLasVegas

Here's a little more insight into how the hotel numbers work.
Yes if you get a room comped it will show up in the books as full rate, but that money will be deducted from the department that issued the comp (i.e Table Games, Slots, etc.).
So you can fake occupancy but you can't fake the bottom line though.

Also when it comes to keeping show numbers high whenever there are too many empty seats they issue free tickets to management and they trickle down to line employees.
Some shows are doing so bad that employees can get free tickets anytime they want.

Also I'm not sure how Venetian does business but I can guarantee you that at MGM Mirage, the top notch people move southbound on the strip.
By that I mean that the best people from Bellagio have already been promoted to CityCenter and the open Bellagio spots get filled by Mirage people and the Mirage openings get filled by TI and so on.
Of course there's always exceptions to the rule but that's how it usually goes.

And last but not least the only Tribal Casinos I've ever been to are in California (Morongo, Pechanga, etc) and all I can say is that they are usually way too crowded, I'm not going to stand in line to play a slot machine!

June 26, 2007 5:28 PM Posted by John

Billy, it's interesting you mention the shows, because I've got a bit of a issue with Wynn over Spamalot now. Don't get me wrong, I love the resort, as most people here know, but I have to lose a lot of respect when Las Vegas' only Five Star-Five Diamond resort has sunk to advertising in the bimonthly AAA magazine. I mean for the love of God this is the most luxurious, according to Mobil, resort on the Las Vegas Strip and they've sunk to the level of advertising in a AAA magazine and offering 10% off of the ticket price if you mention the magazine. It's just a little too much for me to handle. I mean, yeah advertising in airline magazines, Vanity Fair, Vogue, etc. is fantastic, but not in AAA's Westways.

In terms of moving people into positions at Palazzo, when I was at the Venetian in December a clerk at Venezia's sundry store told me that she had been offered a position in one of Palazzo's "apothecary" stores, but turned it down due to health issues (smoke inhilation) and the fact that no one could smoke around her in her current position. I don't know if this is standard practice, because, for a regular clerk, this woman was exceptional. You really felt a connection with her and could see, eventhough she worked for Sheldon Adelson, she really loved her job and it showed.

On another note, following Mike's lead, I tried to get a feel for the resorts dining locations and lounges, but was somewhat angered to find out that most of the lounges were titled La Scena II and Oculus II. I don't know if they haven't come up with names for their locations but if they really have locations that are the same between the two resorts, it really shows ar real lack of creativity and inspiration. The only instance I have seen in which doing this has worked has been with the Baccarat Bar that was continually evolved into a more elegant and refined location from Mirage to Bellagio to Wynn (eventhough that location is really a shell of what it used to be). But with the Venetian, the current La Scena and Oculus locations are uninspired and just lack creativity (they're just bars and lounges).

And again, on another note, did anyone noticed the fact that in addition to the overall resort design, the logo for the resort looks suspiciously similar to Bellagio's (in using the first letter of the title as the main logo). I wonder if there will be large "P"s on the resort elevators? (I guess we'll just have to wait and see)

June 26, 2007 7:49 PM Posted by Brian Fey

Molly, I often wonder if you are not married to Leonard? :) I would love to know what Steve Wynn did to you two, to make you hate him so badly. To compare Wynn Resorts to Enron, is a slap in the face to Wynn Resorts, and the people of Las Vegas. When I see your comments on some of various sites, I really wonder about you. I loved your comments on another site, about how you coached people to make up bad reviews of trips to Wynn, and how people should post stories everywhere on sites like and, about how bad service and food is, and how terrible the shows are. Have you anti-Wynn people gotten that desperate? Wynns stock is down due to Macau concerns. Nobody seems to mention how LVS's stock is down even further than Wynn's both in total dollars and percentage. Unfortuntally for me, Wynn's stock does follow LVS's stock, and that has been down. I have said that for almost a year now, that LVS stock was highly overvalued, and I was right. Wall Street realized this, and now the stock is coming down, however Wynn's stock is paying the price with it. I am just curious at what point you will give up and admit defeat? How big does Wynn have to get? How many more hotels will he have to build? How many more millions of dollars will his casino's have to make?

June 26, 2007 8:11 PM Posted by mike_ch

I'd take La Scena over Wynn's latest B______ Bar any day of the week. Live music at night is important. The lack of it at Wynn is alarming. Especially since the last time he hit a home run twice with both Fontana and the piano bar.

June 26, 2007 9:07 PM Posted by John

Well, I'm not saying that the lounge entertainment factor failed at Wynn, and that has been discussed time over time. Whether it is about the lack of live music, the lack of bar-top video poker, or the lack of overall bars in the resort, Wynn did fail in that respect. However, that still doesn't stand to say that the original B Bar was something to see. Even though the original only lasted for a short time, I loved the cosmopolitan style and luxury that the lounge evoked. It may have been poorly placed, since it really needed to be in the center of the casino, or at least in a central area with high visibility, but because it needed to be connected to the High Limit area, etc., it was placed on that corner. C'est la vie.

La Scena, for me, though, is just a regular lounge with a temporary stage. It's not that attractive, it's not that elegant and it really doesn't have name recognition in the city. Wynn could reuse the Baccarat, or B, Bar format because it had appeal. It was known for its elegance and small amount of exclusivity at Mirage and is still freguented by a somewhat discerning clientle at Bellagio. La Scena, is just a lounge.

June 26, 2007 9:44 PM Posted by Michael

I have a couple of more adders for comments about Reno. I am not responding to any one thing, just making comments based on what I have been reading.

I have been in Reno every three years since 1995 for the ABC National Bowling Tournament (now the USBC Open Championships). Though I am in no way an insider, I do have a couple of comments.

The Flamingo Hilton closed in the early 2000s, then after being dark for awhile, it was reopened as the Golden Phoenix. The Golden Phoenix closed in (I think) 2005, and is being converted into high-end condos. In addition to stripping down to the concrete frame, they are adding a few floors to the top of the structure.

The Old Reno was a slots-only casino that closed a couple of years ago, and that part of the building is now owned by the same company that just bought Fitzgeralds out of bankruptcy. I don't feel like looking it up, but I believe the owners of the condo development that was the Golden Phoenix now owns the Fitzgerald casino and adjacent building.

The Nugget is not closed. It is still right next to the Horseshoe (which is now a pawn shop). The Nugget's diner still sells the Awful-Awful for $5.95 (1/2# burger and 1/2# of fries. Slogan "Awful big and Awful good").

Reno's worst times were early in the 2000s. Since then, the Siena opened a beautiful casino/spa resort, the Grand Sierra bought out the Reno Hilton and made some major upgrades, there is a Station casino in the works for the far south side of town. High-rise condos are sprouting up in downtown like popcorn and a couple of years ago, a whitewater rafting park opened up on the Truckee river right on the strip.

As a gambler, I have been to Las Vegas three times since fall 2005. In thosee three times, I've gotten tired of it being a chore to get from Point A to Point B. Cabs don't move any faster than traffic, and try walking from the Excalibur to the monorail station at the MGM Grand.

The nicer casinos also gouge and have high table minumums. In May, I was there on a weekend, and couldn't valet park in any of the four casinos we went to (Venitian, Paris, Mandalay and Mirage)... and I steamed at the wasted time finding a place to self park and walk to the casino. I am not into the club scene, but I love looking at scenery and people watching. Reno is much slower-paced, I can afford to have a good meal and a few drinks and not sacrifice my gambling bankroll, and between Virginia City and Lake Tahoe, I find the sights to be far superior.

My buddies and me - who took in the Stardust in February 2006 for a Super Bowl party - are planning to go for a weekend for the 2008 Super Bowl. I am trying to steer them to Reno instead.

June 26, 2007 9:59 PM Posted by MGK

Yesterday in the sunday news paper, I had seen the advertisements for The Palazzo's job openings twice. While the really nice rendering of the finished Palazzo tower caught my eye, the one thing that I really noticed is the part where it said that it would hire about 4,000 people. Now I'm no expert when it comes to this hotel hiring stuff, but doesn't that seem a little out of proportion for a 3,000+ room hotel? For example, the Bellagio employs about 9,000, Wynn 8,000, City Center 12,000, and red rock 2,100. For a hotel of that size, can hiring about 4,000 people affect service in a major way or can they somehow pull it off?

June 27, 2007 7:21 AM Posted by Brian Fey

After thinking last night about my post. I think its only fair to post the source of my claims. If I am going to point fingers, then to uphold my reputation, I will post the link, and paragraph of which I spoke about. I think this speaks volumes about people.

"And forget about any unemployment compensation. You will never beat Wynn if it comes to that.

Now there are several things you CAN do that WILL affect business at Wynn. There are plenty of websites devoted to Vegas tourism such as LasVegasTalk and RateLasVegas. Tourists look to those sites for advice. Sign up and post. And though I would normally be disgusted at myself for suggesting this, I feel if Mr. Wynn is going to play dirty then you must be ready to as well. Write about your recent stay at Wynn. The overpriced meals, the tight slots, the horrible service, the stupidest show you've ever seen, etc. Unfortunately this WILL affect your business and every employee who works for Wynn. But you guys are going to have to work together as a team and suffer a short time "smaller" loss in order to spare you of a much bigger one. Because I guarantee, if this works with the dealers he will move on to his next set of employees."

That's a sucker punch if I ever saw one. The entire article can be found here.

When people operate under many different names, on many different websites, I have to seriously wonder what their motive is.

Just for clarification, I am Brian Fey. I am Brian Fey on I am Brian Fey on I am Brian Fey on Yahoo. I am Brian Fey here in Kansas City, and I am Brian Fey in Las Vegas. When I meet many of you at Encore I'll still be Brian Fey. Those who use man different names, obviously have a much larger hidden agenda.

June 27, 2007 9:35 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

Brian: With all due respect to you, there is no question that I, myself, also elected not to hide behind the cloak of anonymity on this forum as well. Unfortunately, for me, I am well known in the business + the fact that I made the decision to be totally transparent when posting my comments under my true + actual name, which have its foundation based upon my obvious anti-Wynn POV, it has resulted in an unwarranted backlash from those Wynn fanboys who wish to contunue to discredit me. I don't believe that your using the screen name of "Brain Fey" exposes you to have to face anywhere close to the constant level of criticism as I have endured here ever since day one simply because you are not a known figure within the industry whose relevancy would be considered questionable.

June 27, 2007 10:16 AM Posted by Molly


I did indeed write that letter but to be fair you should have posted it in it's entirety.

I guess if anyone wants to read the whole thing they can click on the link.

There is no way I can live in Vegas and work in this industry and use my REAL name!

Believe me, Wynn already knows who I am but I have no desire to ever work for him.

However there are many other employers who read these boards. Tomorrow I have an interview at Palazzo and Green Valley Ranch. Do you think my chances of getting hired might change somewhat if they were to google my real name? Companies do that now, you know.

Besides that I have worked with so many people on three different issues this past year that I get tons of email. It helps to remind me which project they're involved with based upon how they address me. If they write, "Dear Molly" I know they're from RateLasVegas.

Believe me, if you REALLY want to be angry with me go to and read what I have to say about your idol.

What you posted above I wrote in August of last year about two days after Wynn flew like a bat out of hell back to Vegas and screamed at his dealers, calling them thieves and liars. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

It's also when he informed then that if a single one of them called in sick even once without returning with a doctor's note they'd be automatically terminated. Furthermore, starting that day their toke rep in the count room would be pulled so the money taken in would never be able to be verified and they'd simply have to take management's word for it.

Why in the world do you think Wynn's last earnings were finally in the black? Do you think it's a coincidence that the dealer's income has dropped up to 50% and Wynn is FINALLY making money? You DO know that the SEC is now watching him closely, don't you? Not to mention the FBI and the NLRB.

As far as Leonard Stern goes, I wouldn't recognize his face if he passed me on the street nor recognize his voice if he called me on the phone.

I don't regret a word about what I have said about this man.

Brian, let me ask you something. Since the opening of WLV how many upper execs have left him?

I mean, a couple or even a half a dozen might be understandable. But we're talking maybe 2 dozen.

He didn't fire them. They LEFT! They didn't want anything to do with him anymore. His vice-prez/HR director had been with him 30 years! He coincided his departure when Wynn began stealing (yes, that's what it is- STEALING!) his employee's tips.

When you dine at your favorite restaurants at Wynn, did you know that your server (who is Culinary) must turn 3% of sales over to MANAGEMENT?

That's in addition to what must be tipped out to bartenders, busboys, etc.

Fine dining servers at Wynn make less money than the coffee shop or buffet employees at Wynn. (Housekeepers are making $16/hour and dealers are making $6.75 hour).

It's clearly against the union contract, yet Wynn demands it anyway. So how long before the valet guys have to do the same?

Did you keep up with the legislative bill I put in hundreds and hundreds of hours to help Nevada workers?

The bill was one of the hottest issues Carson City has seen in ages. Letters were pouring in. Phones were lit up like crazy.

Nevada wanted this bill passed. The assembly wanted it passed, and finally DID, after Wynn paid off Bernie Anderson to kill it in committee.

Once Bernie found out we were going to expose the corruption he dug the bill out of the trash and literally threw it to the assembly, where they overwhelmingly passed it.

Then it forwarded to the Senate. Elaine and Pascal flew to CC and God knows how much money later, ensured it died via Senator Townsend and Senator Raggio, both of Reno/Sparks.

This is not slander. It is the truth. And on July 30th the house of cards is going to start to fall- just like in the county commissioner case.

I'm not the only one saying this. Most of the casino community here is fully aware of what's happening.

I have no idea why you continue to admire this man. I really wish you'd move here and work for him. I doubt you'd last 6 months and NOT because you're a bad worker. It could be as simple as them not liking the fact that you stole the name 'Wynn" (which is copy-righted, by the way) to name your baby.

Sound insane? He's sued people for more stupid things than that.


June 27, 2007 11:09 AM Posted by Dave

Totally different subject here.

A few weeks back someone discussed meeting up in Vegas. It happens that I've got a slot for a gaming-related event in October at UNLV. While I was thinking of bringing in another author (the Burt Dragin event on Friday went really well), how would people feel about a small panel on casino design?

I'd want to get someone from MGM Mirage to talk about City Center, Boyd to discuss Echelon, and either SBE, Wynn, or Fontainebleau to talk about those projects.

If I could do this on a Friday afternoon/early evening in October, who would come?

I'd see it as a chance for some of us to hear straight from the source about how design decisions are made, and a chance for the designers to meet some of their future guests.

I'm just in the planning stages for the October event now, but if there's a demand for it, I might be able to make this happen.

And yeah, posters who have "connections" with design people, I'd appreciate a few leads on getting 3-4 speakers who are local to Vegas (I don't have a travel budget) and wouldn't mind talking about how they work. You can find my contact info on DieIsCast--click on my name.

June 27, 2007 11:56 AM Posted by Hunter


I'd love to come and see something like that.


June 27, 2007 1:11 PM Posted by Brian Fey

Molly, You know, you and others should really short Wynn stock if you are SO sure this "Enron" is getting ready to explode. You can make a TON of money.

Nobody forced these people to work for Wynn. If they think its so horrible, I would suggest they look for work elsewhere. Palazzo is opening up soon, maybe they can go there. For every employee that leaves Wynn, there will be 3 standing in line to take their place. And Wynn's HR guy of 30 years retired. I hope to invite you and others on this board to a celebration dinner at Encore, to celebrate Wynn's success. This "house of cards" as you call it, is built out of concrete!

Good luck on your job at Palazzo, it looks like it will be a pretty nice place, not Wynn nice, but nice. :)

June 28, 2007 7:25 AM Posted by SGARZA


June 28, 2007 8:05 AM Posted by Brian Fey

Has anyone thought about how many BILLIONS of dollars Sheldon has lost lately? I don't think he'll even be in the top 5 now. This is why I laughed when he said he'd be number one, on the list of the most wealthy Americans. Wynn has lost about 650 Million in net worth, but Sheldon's has the be in the many Billions by now, I'm sure.

June 28, 2007 10:15 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

Brian: A "house of CONCRETE + STEEL cards" would be a much more appropriate description. :-)

June 28, 2007 1:19 PM Posted by Leonard Stern


WYNN's 2007 Q2 earnings estimate by gaming sector analysts' are now considerably lower than what the company has [informally] published in terms of its revenue expectations in both Macau as well as L.V. whereby a HOLD recommendation has been placed on WYNN by just about each + every one of all of the most reliable/respected analysts�. Everyone are now expecting + anticipating an unconfirmed, release date for WYNN�s 2007 Q2 earnings to be @ $0.54 on or about 8-6-2007. Maybe now it would be an opportune time for you to dismantle that "Steve Wynn shrine" of yours sitting in the middle of your living room before you end up really in the red! :-) LOL

June 28, 2007 1:28 PM Posted by Molly

Brian, please. I am begging you to be reasonable about this. I am going to respond, point by point.

1. I do not own Wynn stock. I never have and I never will. I don't spend money at Wynn. I don't even want to make a ton of money OFF Wynn. I'd rather burn it, if that ever were to happen.

2."Nobody forced these people to work for Wynn. If they think its so horrible, I would suggest they look for work elsewhere."

This is where I'm asking for your patience. For many years Steve Wynn was an EXCELLENT boss to work for. I am granting you that, Brian. He was. I have no idea what changed these past few years.

Because of that, there are people who gave up YEARS of seniority at such places as Caesar's Palace, The Palms, Bellagio, Mirage and other casinos in order to have the opportunity to work for Wynn.

If Wynn had said from the very beginning, "Just so you know guys, I'm trying a new concept at WLV where I take a portion of your tips and use them to supplement the floor person's pay" I imagine many wouldn't have given up years of GOOD money, weeks of vacation, health insurance, 401 k's, etc." He didn't do this, however.

Brian, please understand. They CAN'T just go work elsewhere at this point. They have worked for 10 or 15 years and their earnings are reflected in their homes, their cars, their kid's college education....

They can NOT go back to their former employers at this point without starting as day one employees at a fraction of what their budgets need to exist, if they even CAN go back. What are their other options? El Cortez? You are NOT a stupid individual. I know that. But do you have ANY compassion for the situation they've been forced into?

Tonight, if you came home from work and had to tell your wife that in ten days your boss is going to reduce your pay to $5.15 an hour, would YOU and SHE not be upset? Then, to make matters worse, as weeks turn into months and then into almost a year (this August) where you can not get hired anywhere else except at $5.15 an hour, do you realize all the other ways you and your family begin to suffer as you continue working for your boss because it's better than no income at all?

A year of stress has caused migraines, high blood pressure, insomnia, more frequent arguments with your spouse, a visit to a doctor for anti anxiety meds because your boss has now started firing your coworkers just to prove a point and you walk in every day not knowing if you're the next to be fired.

Did you feel any compassion for the Enron employees or did you justify the company's action's because what they did with THEIR money was nobody's business? I just can't believe anyone could be so heartless. I just don't think YOU are. Please think about this the next time you say something like, "If they don't like it, they can leave."

3."Palazzo is opening up soon, maybe they can go there."

They have already begun applying there. City Center and Echelon will be the next on their list. Will they be applying at Encore? No.

4."For every employee that leaves Wynn, there will be 3 standing in line to take their place."

Brian, Wynn has hired over 80 steady extra dealers to replace his original ones whom he expected to walk off last August. These dealers gave up jobs at places like "Hard Rock", etc. Many have not worked a single day in the past year. They signed on at Wynn but Wynn requires that you not have a job elsewhere while under his employment.

The word is out among casinos. Do NOT apply at Wynn. When these original dealers finally go, they may be replaced but it will be by people like employees at Gold Coast or the Californian. What is THAT going to do to customer service and Wynn's reputation of hiring only the BEST?

5."And Wynn's HR guy of 30 years retired."

Brian, Nathan Arte "retired", yes. That was a polite way of saying, "There's no way I'm going to be involved in this." Nathan had many good years left and certainly would not have "retired to spend more time with family" if he knew he wasn't about to be in the line of fire. He timed his resignation to begin on the first day of the tip confiscation.

You can google his resignation statement at LVRJ. I don't think you'll take my word on this but Arte Nathan "retired" because he's an extremely intelligent man and could see the future madness. In fact, I'll check for you, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has come out of retirement and been snatched up by someone else.

Brian, Arte Nathan warned Wynn not to do this. Elaine Wynn warned Wynn not to do this. Andy Pascal warned Wynn not to do this. Wynn's many attorney's warned Wynn not to do this. When he said he would run his hotel any way he wanted and did not cave to their intelligent advice, many major top execs began resigning as well. Dan Marandino immediately became president of Flamingo. If you like, I'll find the names of the others who resigned at that time and tell you where they moved on.

6."I hope to invite you and others on this board to a celebration dinner at Encore, to celebrate Wynn's success."

I'm sure you can understand my appreciation of this nice gesture but my inability to attend.

7."This "house of cards" as you call it, is built out of concrete! "

Brian, I would like to request that you stay on top of a non-related issue during the next 2 days. The federal government has ruled that if Crazy Horse does not sell by midnight, June 30th, it will be closed by the feds.

If that happens, as I believe it will, then I hope you will respect my knowledge on the Wynn situation because I am much more informed of the current legal status and filings at Wynn than I ever was of Rizzolo's place.

If I am correct, most people on this board didn't believe me when I told them the union would be enormously passed. There are many other things I shared where people did not believe me. I was told I was into conspiracies, etc. but I never said a word that I didn't know was true. And it was. All of it.

July 30th is a critical day for Wynn and if Hunter doesn't mind I would be happy to post all of the information right here for all to see. I don't think you fully understand how many federal agencies are currently involved in investigating Steve Wynn and WLV.

I am not writing this in hopes of upsetting you. I just want people to know that I'm not an idiot and I don't make up lies about what is going on. I am very informed and have been for a year.

I have nothing to gain in any of this except to see justice served. In fact, I've lost thousands of dollars spending time working on this rather than working at a job.

And so I thank you for wishing me luck at Palazzo. Sincerely.


PS. Brian, if something like this ever happened to you or to any other reader on this board I would fight just as strongly for you.

June 28, 2007 2:05 PM Posted by Mike E

Sgarza, please turn your caps off next time you comment. Thanks.

I couldn't find anything on Bellagio's except for all the (usually misinformed) hype in Forbes. I too purchased the AD issue with The Mirage in it. I agree that they're stunning.

June 28, 2007 4:24 PM Posted by Hunter

Molly and Brian,

I appreciate that you guys are discussing a controversial topic (where you both have strong opinions) in a civil manner. Thank you for making your points plainly and sans mud.


June 28, 2007 5:04 PM Posted by Leonard Stern

Hey Molly: I have to agree with much of what you are saying here. WLV dealers are now so disgusted with Steve + his unbridled GREED (as well as his ongoing agenda of retribution towards those who supported this federal, legally protected cause, after that eleventh hour pathetic "apology" of his) where ALL of the long-time casino floor personnel @ WLV will eventually LEAVE the property for good, including [their] best dealers, once Palazzo + the other more employee-friendly, high end luxury opportunities present themselves (CityCenter, Fontainebleau, Echelon, Cosmo, etc.) Unfortunately, this won't be for several years, however I can confirm one thing for certain, when these competing properties are launched, Steve will be relegated to hiring tired old timers, not up to par, dealers from shuttered downtown properties (not exactly "Wynn level" candidates). Wynn has caused this by his lonesome, a total deterioration + meltdown of his so-called "claim to fame", that being one of the most "compassionate" major operators towards his employees, however, with this recent organized labor mess, including the subsequent unjustified firings of dealers + other floor personnel including Boxman, etc., Wynn Resorts, Ltd. will eventually become the BOTTOM of the list in terms of the most "desired" property to work for. Steve, by the end of 2009, you will be history + your Las Vegas properties will be staffed with the likes of the worst, retired downtown property has-beens! For Christ's sake, didn't you learn anything from the first time around? Don't look to Kerkorian to save your shareholders' this time, you are simply too small for him to even bother with, both here in Las Vegas + Macau. You are not only physically slowly turning 'blind', you have always been completely blind to reality, that is your ability to operate + successfully run a major gaming company!!!

June 28, 2007 6:36 PM Posted by Brian Fey

Leonard, what are you saying, they won't hit the .54 wall street is expecting?

Molly, I am speechless. But I am not selling any stock. In fact, I'm telling others to buy it, I think its a fair price at these levels. At least 3 people I have talked to have bought in at these levels. It might to down, and it might go up. But the bottom line is, in 18-24 months, it will be much higher than it is today. That's really all I care about. I am a holder, not a seller.

June 28, 2007 8:28 PM Posted by detroit1051

Leonard wrote, "Don't look to Kerkorian to save your shareholders' this time, you are simply too small for him to even bother with, both here in Las Vegas + Macau."

Leonard, I don't expect Wynn to go anywhere, but I disagree that he is too small for Kerkorian/MGM. In Vegas, the golf course property would be very appealing to either MGM or LVS. I would think Adelson would grab the golf course if he could. What better location than across the street from the LVCC, Sands CC, Palazzo and Venetian. Adelson could build a Vegas version of Cotai. In Macau, Wynn's location next to MGM Grand as well as future Cotai development would interest MGM.

June 28, 2007 8:39 PM Posted by mike_ch

Even if Wynn is going to take the big dive people say it's destined to, Brian still has better odds of coming out ahead than he would in any of MGM's casinos. ;P

June 29, 2007 10:25 AM Posted by Dave

I spent most of yesterday at a conference on casino real estate (called, appropriately, "Casino Real Estate") at the Venetian. I was part of two panels--one macro, global discussion of gaming real estate and one focused on Vegas. I heard some things that people here might find interesting.

No one second-guessed individual operators--the assumption was that anyone who can get the money to build in a big way on the Strip has done their homework. Instead, the biggest debate was whether the Strip is heading for excess supply.

According to John Knott of CB Richard Ellis, there's $20 billion worth of casinos being built right now on the Strip, and another $40 billion that's "extremely likely" to go up--stuff like the MGM/Kerzner project, Echelon 2, and the El Ad project. That's a pretty staggering number, when you compare it to the cost of, for example, the entire World Trade Center redevelopment, which is about $10-12 billion.

At the same time, some people were wondering how all of those new hotel rooms (40,000+ according to one estimate, but I didn't try to parse that) would be filled. There's the problem of McCarran reaching its limits (mitigated by the Ivanpah airport), traffic, and water.

I think the quote of the day was from someone who was recalling how, in the early 1990s, some of the MGM brass (no one who's with the company now) were balking over buying land for New York-New York at $2 million an acre. Kerkorian insisted they buy it: "Today's high price is tomorrow's low price." And according to most of the analysts and brokers at the conference, that's just as true today.

I also heard some interesting stuff about joint partnerships--the room was bullish on the MGM/Kerzner deal and the Boyd/Morgans one (there was someone from Morgans speaking), so it seems that this might be the wave of the future.

June 29, 2007 10:54 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

Brian: I really beg to differ with you on this one. IF + when Wynn Resorts, Ltd, Steve Wynn + several of his "cronies" are eventually indicted, which remains to be seen, 18-24 months out is EXACTLY around the time when the stock would totally tank! I can report that WYNN is currently, officially a target of the feds involving a number of violations. That is all that I am personally able to find out. They [the feds] NEVER reveal the circumstances, details, existence or status of an ongoing investigation being undertaken by ANY federal government agency, whether it be the DOJ, IRS, SEC, NLRB, etc., so until an actual indictment is unsealed, we will never know for sure. Steve needs to realize, that if he wishes to continue to operate a publicly held company like it were his own private little "hobby venture" whereby, first + foremost, he as CEO, has a primary fiduciary obligation to the shareholders, he had better either reconsider his way of doing business or decide to take the company private where he will not be exposed to this level of scrutiny, which is not a likely alternative based on their balance sheet. If the Sarbanes-Oxley Act had existed back in 1991, when Wynn personally misused, abused, misappropriated corporate funds to pay for legal defense fees whereby (under current legislation) he clearly breached his fiduciary obligations for launcing a personal vendetta at the shareholder's expense (relating to my case alone) he would have joined his lifetime friend Milken in an extended stay at an FPC! (that's a minimum security federal prison). A Leopard doesn't change its spots, + Wynn has proven this in the manner in which he continues to operate. He has alienated many of his current employees, + even more damaging, self-created a negative image of himself with the general public due to all of the bad press he is receiving in connection with the threats made to WLV dealers, among other potential alleged violations of federal labor law practicies. Brian, wake up + smell the coffee, Wynn will prove himself to be a loser for the SECOND time around, trust me on this.

June 29, 2007 11:11 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

Dave: Actually that figure is now closer to around $27B in "actual" current construction based on preliminary financing figures for proposed projects that are definitely going ahead, which includes phase two of Trump, among many other slightly "off Strip" developments as well as anticipated increases in the projected construction costs for the eventual, as-built projects, that are already under construction. The $40B figure is probably a correct assessment for the remaing future projects. Amazing!

June 29, 2007 1:14 PM Posted by Leonard Stern

I have just been imformed that I failed to include the lead agency in my earlier post whereby, allegedly the FBI is at the forefornt of the WYNN investigation. So, in all fairnes to the Bureau, I apologize by not including them in the list of federal agencies that have expressed an interest in Wynn Resorts, Ltd. as an ongoing concern + possible target. So here is a more complete list of the cast of federal agencies who allegedly have demonstrated more than a casual interest in connection with the operation of Wynn Resorts, Ltd., this includes the FBI, SEC, IRS, the USDOJ + the NLRB with the upcoming hearing scheduled for July involving federal labor law violations. My apologies to the Bureau for not having included them in my list (however I'm quite sure that you would have preferred that I NEVER even mentiioned it). :-)

June 29, 2007 1:35 PM Posted by BillyInLasVegas

Dave: Count me in I'd love to see something like that, I'll shoot an e-mail to the people I know at CityCenter.

Molly: Arte Nathan is not that great a guy and I think WLV is better off without him.
I understand the Wynn situation, I work in a Casino and I can see you're passionate about this but I disagree with you on a few things.
Also I'm surprised no one has mentioned that MGM-Mirage and the Culinary Workers Union haven't come to an agreement and there might be a strike.

Leonard: what ever happened to (just asking)

June 29, 2007 3:38 PM Posted by Justin

Reading Leonard's posts regarding all the government agencies that are targeting Steve Wynn and his companies, you'd think that he engages in large-scale murder and drug trafficking and other activities that jeopardize national security! Personally, I'd hope that the FBI would have bigger, more serious and important issues than a casino operator that may or may not engage in underhanded business tactics!

Dear FBI, please leave Steve Wynn to Jack Bauer and the Men in Black. I imagine our country has larger issues at hand.

June 29, 2007 4:30 PM Posted by Leonard Stern

BillyInLasVegas: is proceeding forward + it will, at the appropriate time, become a reality, so be patient. Since this website is somewhat similar to Harvey Levin's (who happens to have the backing of AOL-Time Warner), I personally am having to deal with many more legal "hurdles" than originally anticipated. The site will feature "unauthorized" video captures of Stevie from the early 1990's (commonly referred to as 'Steve's Mirage days') depicting him at his "very best", along with numerous really derogatory + revealing audio (which required expensive voice analysis verification in order to determine the source + to protect myself), + additional accompanying still images which would, objectively be described as not so flattering, plus anonymously written remarks by many of Wynn's detractors, the majority who were former close Wynn executive associates + confidants of Steve for years (whatever happened to that "lifetime" non-disclosure agreement Steve makes EVERYONE sign?) Well, [we] found a legal loophole around that one. Before I am able to feel completely comfortable in publishing this sort of material on my website, which will include, what I can only describe as several "DeLorean type" of secretly recorded videos, on a public forum (for FREE), you cannot imagine or believe the legal hurdles that I need to complete before launching this site. I am really amazed + actually quite surprised, at the number of offers of support + anonymous sponsorship that I have received from major players in the gaming industry who evidently share my own, albeit not as outspoken as myself, opinion of the "Most Powerful Man in Nevada". Steve, let's hope, for your sake, that you will also become the "Most Powerful Man in FPC Lompoc". LOL, LOL BillyInLasVegas, I can assure you that my future site will NOT dsappoint.

P.S.: I completely forgot that the late John DeLorean ended up being acquitted on cocaine trafficing charges, even after the government's video of the transaction was admitted as evidence. Maybe there IS hope for all of you Wynn fanboys that Steve might still be able to retain his unlimited gaming license after all + not be sent to Camp Fed. The mere thought of Steve Wynn cleaning toilets 8 hours a day is really beneath him + should be considered cruel + unusual punishment. :-)

June 29, 2007 6:20 PM Posted by Leonard Stern

Arte Nathan was Steve's SVP + head of Human Resources for something like THREE decades, who was solely responsible for staffing the majority of Wynn's previous properties dating back to the Golden Nugget. I suppose, those pundants here consider it a simple coincidence that [he] elected to permanently bail (i.e. "retire") once Steve imposed this controversial dealer toke sharing policy. Nathan could't even wait to get the hell out of there. Please people, I am fullly aware of the "true" facts, so don't try + misrepresent what I know to be the 'real deal' which I intend to substantiate, without argument on my future website, When you folks have the opportunity to read Arte Nathan's internal (in-house) e-mails + other material that I am in possession of, on, you will understand the reason for [his] elected or should I say "timely departure" as the head of Human Resources for WLV, which just happened to occurr at the EXACT SAME TIME, immediately proceeding Steve's decision to illegaly attach the dealer's tokes as part of management's compensation.

June 29, 2007 8:18 PM Posted by detroit1051

Leonard, you frequently refer to investigations into Wynn by different fed agencies, so what is your purpose in Will you tell us what drives you to do this? It seems that Wynn is consuming you, and that can't be healthy.

June 29, 2007 10:25 PM Posted by motoman

The DeLorean comparison is interesting, I was just recently thinking about that (and the similarities between these men) myself. Although, mostly from the standpoint of: it would take something like that to even begin to substantiate some of the negative sentiment expressed here.

I gather that such evidence does exist. My area of concern would be just how unique or outstanding it would be against the backdrop of what we already know to be the history of the growth of Las Vegas. IOW, doubtless similar dirt could be dug on many a Vegas mogul.

(detroit, you make an excellent point and it also applies to another multi-noms de plume poster here.)

(And as noted, even DeLorean was acquitted. His counsel argued entrapment, which would not seem to be a plausible defense for Mr. Wynn.)

June 29, 2007 10:36 PM Posted by motoman

Darn that TypeKey instant approval! Needed to clarify that I'm not trying to defend Wynn, any more than the robber barons of the Industrial Revolution. We simply live in the world they built, for better or worse.

June 29, 2007 10:57 PM Posted by Molly

Detorit, you wrote:
"Leonard, you frequently refer to investigations into Wynn by different fed agencies, so what is your purpose in Will you tell us what drives you to do this? It seems that Wynn is consuming you, and that can't be healthy.

Posted by: detroit1051 on June 29, 2007 8:18 PM"

May I ask you, do you live here?

I'm just curious because it seems like there are many people on this board who post messages like, "Go! Wynn! Rah! Rah! Rah!"

And while that's perfectly understandable I just can't help but feel that there are many people outside of Vegas who don't see this full picture of events.

I honestly hope you never have to live through them, like th rest of us.


June 30, 2007 4:55 AM Posted by brian fey

my new iPhone rocks, but the service at my lake house sucks!

June 30, 2007 5:17 AM Posted by detroit1051

Brian, you are on the horns of a dilemma. Do you get rid of the iPhone or the lake house? LOL.

June 30, 2007 9:25 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

Brian: I have decided to wait for the 'second generation' iPhone before buying one since the bugs, which are proving to be quite numerous based upon early reviews, should be worked out at that point, offer superior upgraded functions + will also cost about half the price within a year's time. Please bring your iPhone along with you when we have lunch together here in July so I can check it out + make a final decision of whether or not Apple will live up to all of their "hype" + expectations. The AT+T network (which recently absorbed Cingular) has the absolute slowest internet transfer speed af ANY carrier, partiularly here in Vegas for some reason. For Christ's sake, I would NEVER wait in line for days + days for a f*cking lousy PHONE! Now, if it were a free Ferrari ENZO, I would buy one of those huge RVs + "camp out" in front of the Ferrari dealership for a year or more. :-)

June 30, 2007 9:49 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

detroit: Actually, my decision to go forward with this extremely time consuming + very costly enterprise, i.e., was a result of encouragement + insistence by so many people who have been screwed over by Steve. The number of individual lives that Wynn has 'ruined', financially over the years, is beyond comprehension. To say that I personaly will not achieve my just desserts out of this would be a lie. Steve Wynn represents the LEAST of what "consumes" me. There are many more relevant issues + people that I would consider to be "obsessed" with in terms of achieving some sort of retribution towards, Steve should count his blessings + consider himself lucky that he hasn't risen to that level in my book!

June 30, 2007 11:51 AM Posted by detroit1051

Hi Leonard. Thanks for your reply. On a somewhat unrelated matter, Bill Lerner at Deutsche Bank issued a fascinating report on 6/28: LV Strip Dynamics, Supply and Demand for the next five years. It's not mine to link, but I'm sure you can get access to it.

July 3, 2007 10:52 AM Posted by Leonard Stern

VT+T has posted a sample mock-up corner window wall of VEER that more accurately represents the final design. Note that the "yellow spots" are both subtle + add a "playful" random/alternating pattern in the use of the glazing color with large panels incorporating silicone vertical butt-seam joints as opposed to expressed mullions, nice transition of materials IMO. The continuous horizontal "eyebrows" will also create very unique shadows on the glass due to its depth. You realy need to see a full size mock-up in various actual exterior lighting conditions to really appreciate how the window wall ultimately reads in the wild.