Two Way Hard Three | Las Vegas Casino & Design Blog

June 26, 2006

Project CityCenter Starts Cooking

Posted by Hunter

If you've been following the Vegas news over the past day or so, you will have noticed some new details on MGM MIRAGE's 'Project CityCenter' development, to be located between Monte Carlo and Bellagio.

We got the skinny from MGM MIRAGE and will summarize what we know after the jump.

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First off, they revealed the addition of several new architects to the project. The team now consists of:

  • Cesar Pelli is responsible for the main hotel tower, which has been expanded in scope from the original announcement into a higher end property. It will contain about 4,000 rooms and is located towards the rear of the property.
  • Kohn Pedersen Fox will design the non-gaming hotels that will sit closer to the Strip. These will be operated by Mandarin Oriental and the Light Group and the former will feature Adam Tihany done interiors. He's been doing a lot of work for MGM MIRAGE, mostly restaurant remodels in their Strip hotels.
  • On the North side, near Bellagio, will sit the condo-hotel that is assigned to Rafael Vinoly. At 50 stories, it is to be encased in black glass.
  • Above the retail component, Murphy/Jahn Architects will design loft like residences in two glass towers.
  • Finally, the retail area will be designed by Studio Daniel Libeskind.

Overall, the team is full of star architects and based on the models you'll see below, the design is striking. Of course, with so many different folks working within the same site plan, there may be some contention. We'll see.

Want to see photos of the models and the pour? We posted everything we got from MGM MIRAGE:


Read archived comments (47 so far)
June 26, 2006 11:58 PM Posted by Mike E

That's some major talent in that parcel of land. I'm really looking forward to seeing the hotel that the Light group creates.

June 27, 2006 4:47 AM Posted by detroit1051

Hunter, thanks very much for the new photos of Wynn and CityCenter. I still have to wonder whether MGM Mirage will replace Bellagio as the flagship hotel/casino. When one considers that the CC hotel will be higher-end than originally planned and will be designed by Cesar Pelli, what better opportunity for MGM to recapture the luxury lead from Wynn. Bellagio is a beautiful property, but it is still part of the "old" Las Vegas with its Y-towers, small windows and smaller standard rooms than newer properties in town. It was amazing to me last week to see how tired looking Bellagio's suites have gotten. The repeated delays in renovating floors 29-36, several years after the other rooms were renovated also add to my belief that the CC hotel/casino will become the new flagship.

June 27, 2006 5:47 AM Posted by detroit1051

LV Review Journal on CityCenter:

June 27, 2006 8:17 AM Posted by Hunter

I guess we won't know until things get further along. The 'B' is still a money making machine. It will be interesting to see CC's impact on Bellagio traffic and revenues.

June 27, 2006 10:05 AM Posted by devon

has mgm ever built an actual five star property? they have bellagio and some other good properties but will they have trouble creating something that wynn has become so good at? will it have minor problems that is from lack of experience? i wonder.

June 27, 2006 11:33 AM Posted by John

Does anynbody know who the GC for CityCenter is? Is it Perini, or is it Marnell Corrao? I remember Wynn saying that Marnell wouldn't be returning for Encore, and he didn't. It is nice, though, because Wynn brought some new blood into the casino construction business. But, back to CC, this project should beinteresting. MGM doesn't really have a property that can compare to Wynn in terms of pure luxury and amenities, so the CC Hotel might be just what MGM wants. Also, does anybody know if MGM has changed its hotel pecking order, since the Mandalay Buyout? I think that they could put Mandaly Bay on that list somewhere, maybe between Treasure Island and Mirage, but I haven't really seen any changes at these properties to even denote that MGM owns them now, aside from converting One Club to Player's Club at Mandalay Bay.

I guess it just takes time, I mean we didn't see the room renovations or, the Spa Tower at Bellagio for a few years, so we'll just have to sit back and wait.

June 27, 2006 11:47 AM Posted by Hunter

I believe it is Perini... Yeah, that's what the press release says.

As far as the Mandalay properties, they're currently breaking down the hotels as follows:

MGM Grand
Mandalay Bay
The Mirage
Monte Carlo
Treasure Island
Circus Circus
Railroad Pass

Personally, I think TI is more than one notch above Circus-squared and above the dreary pyramid... But hey... What do I know.

June 27, 2006 11:49 AM Posted by John

Why would they put Treasure Island so low?
It used to be right below Mirage and above New York New York.
Well, I guess thats just what MGM came up with.

Thanks alot Hunter.

June 27, 2006 5:14 PM Posted by Mike P.


If you're asking about Mobil ratings, Bellagio gets 4 stars along with the Venetian and Four Seasons on the strip. Wynn hasn't been rated yet, but IMO no strip hotel merits 5 stars, including Wynn. Maybe when the Mandarin group comes to town that'll change.

Mike P.

June 27, 2006 5:15 PM Posted by Sean

There is no way that the tragic castle can be ranked so highly by MGM Mirage. They're on crack. Does it make a lot of money?

June 27, 2006 5:42 PM Posted by Brian Fey

Go ahead, call me negative, but I am just not sold on this PCC. Think about this...Wynn sits on about 60 acres currently and has 2900 rooms. PCC sits on only 66 acres, and has 7900 rooms. That sounds crowded as hell to me, and I can't imagine traffic. And there dosent seem to be anything new or life changing. Its all just more compact than we've had in the past. I mean MGM has tons or rooms, and timeshare/condos, shows, shops, entertainment. That's all this is, but they added a couple of boutique hotels also, and are doing it on about half the land. I just don't see this changing the world, but we'll see. This may take the lead for MGM, not the lead in Vegas. But I don't know that it will stay their number one property for high rollers. I just don't know if the common area is going to be that highend compared to a Wynn or Bellagio. It will do more revenue that Bellagio total, just due to its size, and newness, but I don't know that this will be the place to hang if you are looking to drop several million dollars, these people don't think bigger is better. Lastly I know most don't agree with me, but I think its just flat out ugly. The first renderings looked pretty cool, but the later ones don't look so hot. They lost that curved look, and went boxy. Boxy is cheaper to build.

June 27, 2006 5:48 PM Posted by brian Fey

Sorry I meant 7600 keys not 7900. But I think you still get my concern.

June 27, 2006 6:24 PM Posted by John

It should be interesting to see, what is going to happen. There are some features that I had seen in earlier renderings that I was really excited about. One of the features was the giant dual-sided video screen/sign, that was to be the entrance to the retail center, but I guess that has been replaced, with a very Frank Gehry design.

One question I have, is how much Wynn styling Bobby Baldwin will carry over, I mean, he was Wynn's Right Hand Man, and he came from Wynn's school of casino design, but at the same time you have MGM-Mirage doing the designs. We shall see.

The other question I have is, can MGM-Mirage pull it off, they haven't built an original resort since MGM Grand. They have purchased and added on to their resorts, but they haven't built one from scratch in over 12 years.

Eventhough I am really excited about this project, I do have some question about the layout of the project. They have put the main resort at the back of the property. Its going to take a lot to get Joe Schmo Vegas Visitor, to walk all the way to the back of the development to gamble, when there are so many casinos right on the strip. This development has no hook, other than its shere size, I guess you can pull people in through the retail space, but it is going to take a lot to get people into that casino.

I was watching LAS VEGAS: An American Dream (the PBS documentary), and I saw an interview with Wynn. Steve calls the city, more importantly, the Strip is a carnival midway. You have to have something really amazing to get the people to "play your game, rather than the other guy's." City Center really doesn't have this.

I'm rambling though, we'll see what happens, and the only thing that will tell how well City Center does is time itself.

June 27, 2006 6:49 PM Posted by Devon

What i mean is that MGM has sort of downgraded Bellagio from a 4 or 5 star a little by using cheaper fixtures and other things. I just don't see MGM making a resort to compete with WYnn or Bellagio. Also, it can't be intimate. That's one thing that Wynn is praising right now. His hotels are intimate but a 7600 room complex that is crammed onto 66 acres is crowded and crammed. Most affulent people won't want to pay wynn prices and stay at a 4000 room hotel in a 7600 room complex with views of other boxy buildings and Monte Carlo surrounding them. MGM should of tried to build a great 3500 room hotel on that property that can get a high rating and be truly origional. I also find Brian to be 100% right.

June 27, 2006 7:02 PM Posted by John

I wouldn't say that MGM used cheaper fixtures, I would say that they used blander fixtures. You also have to realize that MGM did a fairly good job on the room renovation at Bellagio.

All of that being said, I think I've come up with an analogy for City Center. This property will feel more like New York, the NYNY does. CC will be cramped, yes, but it looks like if you are in the right spot, you might be able to get an okay view of the strip.

I think I have to eat crow on one of my earlier comments. Eventhough Bobby Baldwin is in charge of CC, he still has to answer to Terry Lanni, and Terry has to answer to the big boss, Kerkorian. And I think we all know that Kerkorian likes to build really, really big properties, and this will be no different.

But like I said earlier, time will probably tell on how whether City Center will be the paradigm-shift that MGM is hyping it up to be, or whether it will be another Aladdin (which seems highly unlikely)

June 27, 2006 7:58 PM Posted by Devon

Here's a link to a couple very interesting renderings and some good info. on the building of PCC.

Also, I really wish they would have demolished Monte Carlo and built a much more spread out project with 100ish? acres vs. 66. That's a big difference between MGM and Wynn. Wynn would have most likely demolished Monte Carlo and taken the loss of revenue, but have a better property.

June 27, 2006 8:15 PM Posted by Mike E

The last hotel MGM built was New York New York I believe.

Regarding Mobil 5 stars, there isn't a single hotel with that rating in Nevada and only 30 something in the United States. I don't know if this is against the rules, but if they were allowed to review hotels within hotels, I think Skylofts would be the first to take the crown.

If Mandarin comes into town boasting more than 400 rooms, I can bet money they won't get the fifth star.

June 27, 2006 9:25 PM Posted by John

New York-New York was built between Primadonna Resorts and MGM. That would make the City Center hotel the first hotel MGM has built on its own, since MGM Grand.

Devon: on that wikipedia page, I really like this rendering ( of the City Center hotel. It really makes the hotel portion look like it might really work. Hopefully, the final product resembles this.

June 28, 2006 11:17 AM Posted by Devon

It is weird though that nobody else has that rendering and it doesn't fit into any of the other plans like it does in that picture.

June 28, 2006 12:33 PM Posted by MARLON

I like MGM for the most part due to there committment to diversity. I believe they have most of the other companies beat, but as far as that goes i'm having a difficult time becoming excited about this project.

Mabey they are thinking the sheer cost of the project will be enough to make people take notice. I dont see anthing revolutionary happening there. Im somewhat bored by it but im hoping that will change.

IMO there are too many buildings in that tiny space, i feel claustrophobic looking at it. And since the company hasn't built anything in so many years, perhaps they should start with something less ambitious. Developing the Circus Circus site to get there feet wet any thoughts.

June 28, 2006 2:45 PM Posted by Matt B

I would have to agree with Brian about the CCP. I just can not get excited about it. I'm glad there making such an expensive investment in the city, but I don't see any part of the project drawing me in. It's as if they have figured out how to earn the most income off ever square inch of the property, but forgot to include a reason to spend your money there. It's sort of like building Disney World with out rides only shops. Other than seeing what a hell of a lot of cash will buy, why should I care. (Did anyone see water world?)
I've read they plan on making an environment so engrossing that people visiting the property would not have time to visit the other properties. That's a pretty tall order for a property that is only dedicating 500,000 square feet to it's entire theater and shopping space.
That's about the size of the Venetian's mall, which is easily seen in less than day.
I also do not understand the why the concept is suppose to be appealing. An Urban theme? The reason people love Las Vegas is because of it's fantasy elements. People like to get away from the ordinary. Wynn completely understands this which is why he�s resorts are so great. What make's MGM think vacationers want to leave there urban habitats to vacation in a urban habitat? Am I missing something here? Sure the idea of city within a city is cool, but why not make Atlantis or the Hanging Garden's of Babylon. Why an over sized office Park? I understand they want to get away from themes but urban is a theme. And even if MGM dead set against themeing the project, Wynn has shown you can make a fantasy world without a theme.
Oh well, I hope there is something more here that isn't being revealed.
If there isn't, I guess that's all we can expect from a company that's suggested removing the fountains of the Bellagio for a more profitable use of land.
If their grand idea is nothing more than a profit center, I hope it is another Aladdin.- Thank God there are other players in town...


June 28, 2006 3:56 PM Posted by detroit1051

Let me join the chorus of those questioning CityCenter. At first, I chalked it up to my not being the most creative thinker. I figured there must be more to the project that I just didn't get. However, I'm still a nonbeliever. The comments posted here plus all the articles I've read on CC point to a densely populated neighborhood of hotel rooms, condos, a casino and some retail. What exactly is new here?

It's odd that the two boutique, non-casino hotels are closer to the Strip than the 4,000 room hotel/casino. I agree with John, putting the largest hotel at the far west side of the property, away from the Strip, may deter visitors on the Strip from walking back to it. All Strip properties, including Wynn and Bellagio, are dependent on foot traffic from the Strip.

The four Seasons' location within Mandalay Bay was a brilliant idea. It is a hotel within a hotel. The separate entrance, pool and restaurants make it possible for those who don't care for casinos to never set foot in one. Those who want casino action can walk down the hallway into Mandalay's lobby area. Who will the Mandarin and Lifestyle hotels attract? It seems to me the "beautiful people" who are drawn to high end hotels also like the glamor and excitement of Vegas casinos. Conventioneers don't appear to be likely targets of these boutique hotels. What am I missing?

Condos, casino and boutique hotels, retail space---what is "paradigm shifting" about it to quote McBeath? As I wrote at the beginning, maybe I just can't see the big picture.

I thought it interesting that at this week's media event, Bill McBeath, Bellagio President, made the presentation, according to the Review Journal. Since this is Bobby Baldwin's project, I was surprised he didn't play the key role.

June 28, 2006 4:07 PM Posted by John

Detroit, I whole heartedly agree with that comment.

About Wynn and Bellagio, as I mentioned in a previous comment, they have thay "Wynn hook". City Center doesn't have that, they have a mall, and, while I'm really on a rant here, do we really need the same old stores next to each other, I mean, you've got Desert Passage across the street and Cosmopolitan will have the same high end stores (Chanel, Gucci, Prada) that City Center will have, what will set it apart. The fact that it looks kind of like the Team Disney Building in Anaheim or the Lou Ruvo Alzheimer's Center (designed by Frank Gehry).

I guess we can all be thankful, that Steve Wynn is still up the street and is still churning out, mindblowingly incredible properties.

One other thing, where has Bobby Baldwin been in all of this? I know it is his project, but like Detroit said, McBeath made the presentation.

Also, have we heard anything yet on the interiors, aside from Adam Tihany and the Light property (which, if he does what he did with Kokomo's, then we might be in trouble)?

June 28, 2006 5:22 PM Posted by dr_al

Any original thinkers at home in corporate MGM? You need a new show, you get another Cirque production. Now your new feature hotel is a bleached knock-off of Wynn LV. The "entryway" appears to be designed to resemble a pile of cardboard boxes. Yuck, and blah.

I don't knock the concept, myself, at least from a business standpoint. First, condo projects bring in capital before shovel hits earth - great model there, especially with such a huge project. Second, having hotel partners spreads out the work (and cost) of getting all these places up and on-line. Third, it makes sense to line your "streets" with shopping - the whole strip is becoming a shopping mall anyway.

However -- how much walk-in business will the casino get if it sits at the very back of the property? Aladdin gets bad marks just because you have to go up steps to get to the casino. Best you can hope for here is that they re-work the tram from MC to Bellagio to stop at the PCC casino.

June 28, 2006 5:31 PM Posted by cgriff

As some have mentioned, the main 4000-room PCC casino-hotel is cloistered off-strip behind the boutique hotels and the shopping venue... This location is very purposeful (though it could turn out to be a huge strategic mistake), and I think it's the primary rationale for the MGM claim that "PCC guests will not visit other strip properties". The bulk of PCC guests will be veritably trapped within the architecture of the place, unable to very easily get to other strip properties. At least that certainly seems like it could be the case... A resort as prison.

Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe one aspect of a 'hook' of PCC will be some ingenuous way of conveying people quickly from one part of the property to another. Something beyond the ubiquitous, one-way moving sidewalks.

I'd like to know how tightly integrated guest amenities will be among the main and boutique establishments. For example, if I am staying at the main PCC hotel, can I charge dinner at the Light property to my room? Or, moreover, if I valeted at the main PCC hotel and am having drinks at the Mandarin, can I retrieve my car from the Mandarin valet? (For what it's worth, I believe I have read that Eschelon Place plans to implement something like this regarding a universal valet service.)

June 28, 2006 6:38 PM Posted by Hunter

PCC will be connected to Monte Carlo and Bellagio via some type of connector, along the lines of the tram that existed between the B and MC.

I basically agree with the general sentiment here, that the idea that this is a paradigm shifting property is mostly spin.

As far as Baldwin goes, according to MGM MIRAGE he is still very much in charge of the project. On the topic of him bringing Wynn stylings to MGM, not likely. He's an operations guy, marketing focused... Not a designer. He's the kind of guy that can see that a design is solid but could never formulate said design. I've met him a few times - he's a very nice guy and easy to talk to. He was nice enough to submit to an interview with me when I was working on a college economics project.

On the topic of universal valet - that would be nice. Valet service in Vegas often lacks what you'd expect from nice hotels... Some of the valets won't bring up your car if you call down. Bogus. With a unified underground valet parking setup, a universal valet would be possible.

You can cross-property charge between Mirage Resorts properties - have been able to since Bellagio opened... I believe they integrated MGM Grand and NYNY as well... I don't think the MRG properties are in on that system yet - from what I've heard their IT infrastructure was pretty far behind the times compared to MGM and HET and of course WYNN and LVS.

As far as getting these big names for the design, that's all they are - names... Tihany is more than capable of bad designs, look at some of the stuff he's done in the restaurants. Maybe not bad but certainly unremarkable. The designers they are going with are very, very safe choices... It would be more interesting to see a paradigm shifting designer in the mix. But again, all of these guys are going to be competing within the same master site plan and if you've followed what's going on at the World Trade Center site at all, you know what a disaster that has been. Of course this project has the distinction of being managed by a single economic interest vs. several at the WTC.

Perhaps the 'X' factor in this equation is the Light Group. Personally, I'm not as enamored with them as some folks are but still, it will likely follow the same thread as their other stuff - young, hip, exclusive. Could be interesting... Baldwin is in love with those guys.

June 28, 2006 8:14 PM Posted by charlie

Good discussion here...

For me its just too early tell. I like the idea of CC from a long term will grow to consume Cosmo and Monte Carlo will eventually come down to support the expansion of CC. With 4 Panaroma towers across I-15, Sasson and Baldwin aren't going to let them stray away. Expect a feed from that property. To me, CC is a unique concept in that it can continuously expand...the more dissimilarity the better. The concept isn't constrained by any rules. Not even Steve figured that one out...a vegas resort that doesn't have to adhere to rules. It may not translate into big baccarat play, but it creates an unmatched critical mass of high margin visitors.

Getting back to the property, from a visitor perspective, there needs to be multiple casinos to circulate patrons (outside of shops, restaurants and bars). Mandarin O is out, but a Light Group casino would be interesting and successful. There is plenty of room for third boutique casino somewhere on the property. Overall, CC needs to support 250K sq ft of casino space.

As far as the setback of the CC casino, it doesn't appear much different than Bellagio. I don't see this as a concern, but more of benefit (to the property).

Sure CC is mess with its density. But I'm not sure the history books will point to Wynn LV as the transcendent property of this era...even when the golf course is developed. A big lake with jet skis and a water show??? Didn't we see those silly sketches from the original Beau Rivage (Dunes site)? Its only been a year, but just looking at some of Hunter's photos of Wynn, and all its fanciful and silly interior design, I start to laugh. I don't see Mirage. I don't see Bellagio. It doesn't look real. It doesn't look elegant. It almosts flirts with the silliness of Excalibur.

Don't hurt me with your responses.

June 29, 2006 12:23 PM Posted by Andy S

I agree with what most people here seem to be saying that City Center does not have any real reason why you want to go and visit it. Think some of the design looks really ugly, MGM are obsessed with really modern designs.

I'm dubious MGM can pull this off, MGM Grand is a confused mess, the best bits of 'TI' are the ones left over from before (does anyone like Canters Deli?), the Mirage is apparntly loosing its tropical theming and can't believe they would get rid of the Bellagio fountains.

Personaly I think most people will go and check out a higly themed property like Paris, because it really stands out, city center does not have any draw.

Also as other have mentioned who is going to fill all these new stores? Every new development on the drawing board at the moment has lots of retail space.

I think MGM could struggle with this and I wait to see what they do with the former Mandalay properties. Though I hope they pull down Excalibar and Circus Circus.

Should be interesting to see how it all develops over the next few years.

June 29, 2006 12:57 PM Posted by Krunch

What I've seen and heard is that the resort casino hotels are moving away from gambling as the main money-maker toward room rents, food service, retail as the money-maker. This makes a project like the CCP not suprising. People will live there and as consequence, spend their money there. The CCP project won't need hooks or be dependent on walk-in traffic. But they'll get the traffic anyway. So, the design is probably more functionally driven than marketing driven.

June 29, 2006 1:23 PM Posted by Hunter

It is true that the mix of non-gaming/gaming revenues used to be seriously slanted toward gaming (80/20 ish) and that has been changing towards a more balanced model.

Still, we're talking hundreds of millions in gaming revenue from these properties so it is not like casino revenue is something from a bygone era - it's still a huge deal.

June 29, 2006 2:30 PM Posted by Matt B

I have to disagree with the thought that the Citycenter people living on the property creating a steady recurring will not need walk-in traffic. Seven billion dollars is a lot money to recoup. I doubt there will be a lot income. I'd have to bet that most of the condos are going to be investments, corporate owned or vacation homes. If this is true, they will be empty much more often than there hotel room counterparts. The point of building them is to get the initial money from there sale to help offset the cost of the entire project, it's not create a community of residents to milk.
MGM will earning more reoccurring income from their hotel rooms which they can steady fill with tourists that will shop, gamble and eat year around.
The condo's are all about the fast buck, which makes the initial the billion dollar price tag less risky.
If MGM wasn't interested in the walk-in traffic, it would build its resort on the other side of town so no-one could leave. The fact that it will be sitting smack dab in the middle of the Strip shows that they are very interested in the average passer-by.

Has anyone questioned the unintended consequences this condo craze may have in the future???
I have to wonder, in a town where resorts feel dated after twenty years and are torn down and built a new, how do the resorts integrating a residential element plan on redeveloping the property in the future? Or are even thinking that far ahead? With single owner to the entire property it's easy to revamp, but with so many individual owners invested in a single property the process of revamping a resort would seem like a nightmare.

Any thoughts on the Condo Craze?

June 29, 2006 2:59 PM Posted by Matt B

Sorry about the sloppy wording above, the three beginning sentences were suppose to read:

I have to disagree with the thought that Citycenter will not need walk-in traffic. Seven billion dollars is a lot money to recoup. I doubt the condos on the property will be creating a lot of steady recurring income.

June 30, 2006 6:53 PM Posted by detroit1051

In Business Las Vegas on CityCenter:

June 30, 2006 7:43 PM Posted by Hunter

That's an excellent perspective. Thanks for posting.

I was not aware that McBeath was ops manager for CC.

July 1, 2006 3:57 PM Posted by John

Wait, if McBeath is opps manager for CC, then who will be taking over Bellagio, when McBeath will leave it for CC. Does that mean Scott Sibella will become President of Bellagio, or will McBeath still be at Bellagio.

If Sibella becomes President of Bellagio, than any evidence of Steve Wynn's presence at Bellagio will be erased, the way they were at TI, and they way they are being erased at Mirage.

July 3, 2006 6:27 AM Posted by detroit1051

The Las Vegas Sun writes about the biggest building boom in Las Vegas' history:

July 5, 2006 12:29 AM Posted by motoman

On June 27, 2006 05:15 PM, Sean wrote:
"There is no way that the tragic castle can be ranked so highly by MGM Mirage. They're on crack. Does it make a lot of money?"

Had the exact same reaction. Very puzzling.

Read somewhere that Excalibur teaches beginning poker lessons, attracts a lot of small poker players, and that there's still a market for a, shall we say, "value" joint on the Strip close to the action. With Boardwalk and San Remo gone there's less of that now. So in other words, the place must make money. For now.

....As for the size of CC, we'll see. As with Palazzo and other new projects, higher density seems to be the trend with the escalating land values and costs of construction. But one thing I fear, and not to sound too cynical, is the sheer size of the MGM operation and its near-monopolization of the Las Vegas Strip. The old wiseguys had nothing like this....

Amazing they've come so far having not, as you folks noted, built an original property of their own since the second MGM Grand (Emerald City or whatever. Vague recollections of Dorothy, Lion, and Tin Man skipping along....). Shades of Microsoft to this old Apple fan....(Steve Wynn representing Apple and WLV/Encore the Mac, of course....)

July 5, 2006 9:01 AM Posted by Devon

I'm just curious as to what this all will be like in 20 years? By then, MGM will have most likely taken over either Boyd, Wynn or another company. But, will they be broken up into several companies to break up the monopoly? Will Steve Wynn still be creating incredible resorts and continue to raise the bar? Will Las Vegas allow "new players" to come in and build projects or will they be shut out? Will the entire idea of destination resorts be out and high end hotels like the Cosmo be in? Any other ideas or comments?

July 5, 2006 2:29 PM Posted by Krunch

I think the big unknown out there right now is what the long term effects of Vegas eliminating it's affordability for the middle market and retired folks will be. Would it be possible to see visitor traffic actually go down because you can't get a room for under $200/night??

And how are visitors (over the long haul) going to react to the strip losing it's glitz and neon and becomming one big shopping mall for people with Wynn's income?

I want my cheap foot long hot dog at the Westward Ho, to walk by all the lit up casinos with the sounds of coins dropping in to the plate, and the tourist strip stores where I can get toys that roll around on the kitchen floor by themselves.

I dunno about all this super high end stuff going on.

July 5, 2006 3:25 PM Posted by Hunter

The argument goes that the 'cheap Vegas' is still provided for folks - Downtown.

July 5, 2006 4:16 PM Posted by Devon

I think that Harrah's has figured this out and that they will go for the middle market.

July 5, 2006 4:36 PM Posted by Krunch

Yeah. I guess that's the arguement. At the moment there are options on the strip that are still affordable. But that seems to be fading away.

Maybe West Vegas will develop with more mid range properties with the Palms and Rio as the higher end anchors.

July 5, 2006 6:28 PM Posted by John

Well, cheap and middle market choices are provided for any Vegas visitor in Downtown. You even have a fairly upscale resort downtown.

I wouldn't have a problem with the "lets turn the strip into Rodeo Drive meets Times Square," if all of the resorts that are under construction didn't look like office buildings that you would find in New York's Financial District.

If all of these resorts somehow resembled Steve Wynn's styling, then things wouldn't be so bad. However, everything just looks so bland. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

July 6, 2006 7:22 AM Posted by dr_al

Not just downtown, but off-strip: Orleans, Gold Coast, Silverton, Terribles, the Boulder Strip... they're still trying to lure folks out there with cheap rooms, cheap meals, live entertainment and good VP. Actually, off-strip is killing downtown more than the strip is.

July 6, 2006 9:48 AM Posted by Krunch

There's some good vaules at the off strip properties. If the city would continue to build monorail lines like one that runs Tropicana Ave and and one running Flamingo St., one could easily stay at an off strip property and get to the strip without having to fork over cab fares.

July 9, 2006 2:07 PM Posted by motoman

Downtown for the value set: agree, that's the argument.
Off-strip killing Downtown more than the Strip: probably true.

West-of-Strip with Rio & Palms as anchors: interesting! Or maybe that corridor from Hard Rock that will include W on the strip, and continue west.

Monorail: always wondered why the 'rail didn't just go right up Las Vegas Blvd. Figured the taxi and shuttle folks lobbied. Vegas had a pretty pitiful transit system, but last time I noticed brand-new double decker busses and lots of 'em. I'd get a day pass now with much less worry about long waits.

July 9, 2006 2:10 PM Posted by motoman

....Harrah's for the middle market: Seems that's where they're going now, tho their plans for Ceasars seem ambitious. Will be interesting to see what becomes of Flamingo-Harrahs, esp. if they do get BC.