Two Way Hard Three | Las Vegas Casino & Design Blog

February 21, 2007

Wynn Macau: No Credit Offered to Customers

Posted by Hunter

Thanks to some friendly and reliable sources, I got a look at the play/comp requirements for Wynn Macau.

First off, I didn't realize that Wynn Macau is not extending credit - big players have to deposit front money and from what I saw, I got the impression this was for ALL players as the top levels were talking about deposits in excess of $500k USD. Does anyone know if Sands Macau gives credit?

To get comped a Sky End Suite (these are at the end of the tower - no comparable product at WLV but Encore will have them), you need to deposit $500,000 and have an average bet of $10,000. This qualifies you for a helicopter from Hong Kong as well. This suite's casino rate would be $3,000 to $3,400 a night, depending on the day of the week. This compares to a standard room with requires $25k in front money and an average bet of $650 per hand... Plus they throw in some ferry seats - no chopper for you!

It's interesting to see how things are different from Las Vegas... In Vegas, the really big players can have comps (private jet travel, etc...) extended prior to the trip - the big guys are known and the casino is confident in its ability to recoup. Not in Macau - Wynn Macau's comps start when you walk on site and not before. I guess they're still getting to know the regulars.

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Read archived comments (12 so far)
February 21, 2007 3:33 PM Posted by Leonard Stern

WYNN 2006 Q4 Earnings Report date: I have just been informed that WYNN will officially be reporting their 2006 Q4 earning results next Tuesday, February 26th for those of you that are interested.

February 21, 2007 3:47 PM Posted by Hunter

Yeah, I posted that in the comments for the MGM thread earlier today. The press release is on the Wynn Resorts site.

February 21, 2007 3:57 PM Posted by Mike E

While maybe not extending credit, I'm sure known Wynn LV high rollers don't have to "prove" anything to get a helicopter flight, etc. The business cards of WLV's hosts now read Wynn Internation Marketing or something to that extent (at least the ones I saw), so you know they're serious about cross-marketing.

With only 600 rooms and the insane action Macau gets, I'm not surprised to see the high requirements. $650 a hand for a standard room in Macau can get you a Parlor or Executive suite and full food and beverage in the Vegas counterpart.

February 21, 2007 4:07 PM Posted by Hunter

I think it's also a statement on the level of competition in Macau.

February 21, 2007 11:17 PM Posted by Punter

The Sands does offer credit lines and if you have one at the Venetian in Vegas they can just transfer it over, very nice and easy. If you don't have it at the Venetian but have it at other US casinos they can also hook into Central Credit to set up your Macau line. Galaxy (owners of Starworld and a couple other big casinos coming up) also offers credit lines. I've been to both Wynn Macau and Sands several times and it's hard to say who gets more action (I guess the numbers will soon tell). One of the good things about Wynn Macau over Sands though is the Wynn over here hooks into the Red Card system while the Sands has it's own player club independant from the one in Vegas.

By the way, you have to keep in mind that those comp rates for Wynn guarantee casino rate only, anything above that is still fully discretionary. That's the most surprising thing about it.

February 21, 2007 11:41 PM Posted by Punter

By the way, the comp criteria at the Sands Macau is different and based more on the standard local formula used in all Macau casinos. It's based on the "rolling" of chips which isn't too much different than Vegas in terms of the math but it's utilized differently. At Sands "rating" only starts for people with 300,000 HKD minimum credit line or front money (that's about $40,000). Each time you roll the chips, i.e. play through them, you get 0.6% back in commission. That comes in "dead chips" which you can use to play but not to cash out. This is how every other Macau casino works as well, including all the City Club casinos. Then on top of that you get 0.1% for comps, i.e. room, food, etc. If you do the math this actually works out a lot better than Wynn's criteria, but of course Sands Macau isn't nearly as nice. However for the $650 bettor you'd probably get a couple thousand in comp credit as well as thousands in dead chips. Oh and they only offer this rating for baccarat players or roulette players, nothing for blackjack other than a standard pedestrian point system that yields garbage like free buffets or ferry rides. Sands also offers free limo service to anyone with the 300,000 HKD or higher credit line.

February 22, 2007 9:05 PM Posted by motoman

Wow, this is extremely ironic. I had read that Wynn had aggressively negotiated for the right to extend credit, which involved changing the laws there for not only himself but all casino operators, as a condition for locating a Wynn resort there. Did I miss something?

March 6, 2007 10:12 PM Posted by George

I just want to pile on with my quick experince with Wynn Macau player services (not necessarly the overall comps system).

I am trying to plan a second vacation to Macau, and called the number on the back of handy "red card" to see what I can get. Not only was the operator some what rude, but never asked me for my name/number. Futher when I asked for reservations, she just transfered me off into the normal hotel reservation queue.

Added to this are the minor chaffes of my name mispelled on the card (how they did that after copying it from my passport is beyond me) and the fact I have not recived one peice of news/mail from the hotel.

Granted I am a low-roller and I am whitey in Asia, but seeing how it is Macau and moreover it is Wynn I expect a little more.

March 14, 2007 2:36 PM Posted by BrianFey

I am not sure where this information came from. Wynn clearly states in his 4thQ conference call, that they do extend credit in Macau.

March 14, 2007 2:56 PM Posted by Hunter

It's directly from the documents sent to players from Wynn's marketing department - I've seen the docs and they are totally legit.

I just called Wynn PR and they confirmed that credit isn't offered for Macau guests as it is for Las Vegas visitors.

March 14, 2007 6:04 PM Posted by Brian Fey

That's bizarre, you should listen to the first 15 min of the 4Q C.C. He even states, that they have a cushion in there for bad debt, (uncollected markers), and that last month, all accounts were paid in full, so that made them extra profit, they had not counted on making. Strange.

March 14, 2007 6:09 PM Posted by Hunter

Yeah, that is strange.

I need to listen to the call again but maybe he was talking about Las Vegas and not Macau?

Or maybe there is some other class of 'super customers' that can actually get credit?