Two Way Hard Three | Las Vegas Casino & Design Blog

August 10, 2007

Open Topic Discussion: 8/10/2007 - Wynn AC?

Posted by Hunter

A fresh new discussion zone for y'all.


Read archived comments (13 so far)
August 10, 2007 10:01 AM Posted by Devon

"Steve Wynn is willing to make an ironclad guarantee. He says he�ll even put it in writing.
�If I have a site at Bader Field, I�ll build Wynn Atlantic City,� the Las Vegas casino mogul promises."

August 10, 2007 10:17 AM Posted by Mike T

Thanks Hunter.

I wanted to discuss the possibility, however remote, of casino gambling being legalized in the Miami area. Read about it here:,0,3494271.column

The article refers to tribal casinos gaining the right to host games of chance equal to all of the games we have here.

On a Miami-based messageboard I post on, the discussion evolved to casinos being legalized in the Miami area, not tribal ones but regular ones like we have here (although not on this scale), and how this would impact Las Vegas. The thread can be viewed here:;action=display;threadid=42394

Now, I argue that were such a thing as legalized casinos in Miami to come to fruition that it wouldn't really impact Las Vegas because of the infrastructure we have here. I claim that what we have here cannot be duplicated anywhere, at least not in the US, no matter how much anyone thinks about what may be possible in their city. Not even AC, a solid #2 in US gambling markets, can approach what we have here. However, the Miami-based posters on that board, which is basically everyone except me, feels that casinos in Miami would impact Las Vegas negatively in a big way. So, I pose the question to the other posters on here: Do you feel that either tribal casinos gaining full rights to offer all the games Las Vegas casinos do, or full on legalization of casinos in Miami, would negatively impact Las Vegas, or have no impact?

August 10, 2007 11:17 AM Posted by detroit1051

Mike T, Las Vegas gets 40 Million visitors a year. I don't believe Miami casinos would have too much an impact on Vegas. Some Floridians might cut back their trips a little, but not by much. It's a hassle for me to fly from Ft Lauderdale or MIA to Vegas. It is convenient for me to go to Hollywood Hard Rock. The steakhouse is as good as most in Vegas, and there's decent entertainment at Hard Rock Live. I do believe South Florida could hurt AC more than Vegas. Miami-Dade will definitely approve racinos next January, imo, and full gaming is probably five to seven years away. I'd really like Turnberry to eventually make Fontainebleau Miami Beach the first full scale casino resort.
I've been reading the speculation in the South Florida newspapers, and I have a hard time believeing Gov Crist would give the Seminoles an exclusive on table games. It's clear they're going to get Class III slots and possible tables regardless of what Crist does. At least Crist is more rational on gaming than Jeb was.
Thanks for the link. I know an used ballroom/theater behind Hollywood Hard Rock's poker room is being renovated now to open as a high limit slot room with private lounge in October. After reading your link, it does make sense for the casino to expand beyond that space into part of Seminole Paradise.

August 10, 2007 11:37 AM Posted by Dave

As I've said several times, including here, putting a Wynn Atlantic City on the Bader Field land is a natural. It would give the city a new attraction that would undoubtedly draw new visitors--what locals call the "Borgata effect."

Naturally, the city and state should maximize their returns on the land, both in terms of immediate compensation and in terms of getting the most attractive project for the land. There won't be any do-overs on the disposition of this land, so they need to move VERY carefully.

I like SW's offer to buy Pinnacle's land at cost if they are afraid of the competition. Even though I'm not a fan of eminent domain, I'd even explore using eminent domain to pry the land from Pinnacle if they refuse to develop it out of spite or fear.

While there are some interesting developments at the ends of the Boardwalk--Revel next to Showboat and the project next to the Hilton--I think that the next 20 years of Atlantic City's development will, to a large part, depend on what gets built on the Sands/Traymore land and the Bader Field tracts.

I also think that the city/state should explore some ways to use their leverage to further the revitalization of the city, something that's been neglected in the past. Why not require bidders to construct middle- and high-income housing in one or more sites around the city as terms of their agreement?

Too much CRDA money goes out of the city, and there is a LOT of land with prime ocean views just sitting there. It'd be an excellent opportunity for a casino operator to work with a residential/mixed use developer to create a project that could be a paradigm for the "New Urbanism."

This is an issue that I've put a LOT of thought into--ever since my first book--so there's a lot more I could say, but that's just my two cents.

All that being said, it is essential for AC to reinvent itself in the next 5 years, because competition from Miami is highly likely, and racinos/slot parlors in neighboring states are not going away.

August 11, 2007 9:07 AM Posted by Steve

If Wynn likes AC so much, why doesn't he just buy some land in the currently allowed zone (my understanding is there is still a large amount of "blighted land" available, granted he'd have to assemble the land package from various owners)? He seems to be under the impression that casino's on Bader Field won't have a negative impact on the Boardwalk, so I say put his money where his mouth is - build on the Boardwalk and if after that someone else is given opportunity at Bader Field, who cares?

August 11, 2007 5:08 PM Posted by Hunter

What's funny, and I'm surprised not in the article, is that Dan Lee, Pinnacle CEO, was the CFO for Mirage Resorts. I think even at the time they did the H-Tract deal.

August 12, 2007 4:51 AM Posted by Pikes

Speaking of Wynn, What ever happened with that federal gov investigation Leonard used to go on about?

August 12, 2007 9:04 AM Posted by detroit1051

Pikes, it seems when Wynn is involved, media are reluctant to provide coverage. The only thing I found on the NLRB Hearing which started July 30 was in the LV Sun. Maybe someone else has current news.

"Fields took the unusual step of filing a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board, which regulates union activity in the workplace, even before the union drive at Wynn Las Vegas was in full swing. (Six months later, in May, dealers voted to be represented by the Transport Workers Union by a 3-to-1 margin.)
It was after Fields filed her complaint with the NLRB that she was fired. She added her termination as ammunition to her existing complaint.
Fields was among several Wynn dealers to take complaints to the National Labor Relations Board. It found her complaint had merit, and testimony before a federal administrative law judge concluded last week. A decision isn't expected for at least a month. And yet, any success in federal court will go only so far."

August 12, 2007 9:28 AM Posted by Pikes

Thanks for the info/link Detroit.

August 13, 2007 7:54 PM Posted by Mike E

Palazzo is now taking reservations online at

If there's any clue that they're going to have a soft opening, it's the fact that room rates start at $199 the first night of business. I recall Wynn being much more expensive than that.

August 13, 2007 8:15 PM Posted by Chris B

I've booked on Venetian Macau's website to stay there on August 29 and 30 at HK$1088 per night (around US$140). My main disappointment is that it appears from the website that the restaurants cater almost exclusively to Asian tastes.

August 13, 2007 8:35 PM Posted by Hunter


Are those rooms exactly the same as the remodels at The Venetian? That's pretty boring if so.

August 15, 2007 2:38 PM Posted by Mike T

Apparently Marriott plans to build a Marriott Marquis on all of that land they're buying at the corner of Paradise and Convention Center.