Two Way Hard Three | Las Vegas Casino & Design Blog

November 25, 2012

Open Topic Discussion: November 25th, 2012

Posted by Hunter

Based on popular request, I'm starting an open topic discussion post. Feel free to chime in on any subtopic that interests you. To kick things off:

- With the storm wrecking Atlantic City, is Revel doomed and if so, what happens then?

- Fremont Street are putting in a larger zipline and giant slot machine. Will this draw in customers?

... and lastly ...

- Planning to be in Vegas for Christmas? Share some of your favorite things to do on the Strip or Downtown over the holidays.


Read archived comments (8 so far)
November 25, 2012 7:58 PM Posted by Jeff in OKC

Here's my crackpot theory about Revel: it has been a money pit from the beginning (I recall one investor wrote off a billion dollars before construction begn and walked away) and the current operator has no chance of making it work. I think the only person who can create the cache that'll make it work is Steve Wynn.
We were reminded within the last couple weeks that Mr. Wynn (a.) is Interested in the East Coast market again, and (b.) wanted to buy the Mandalay Mile a couple years ago. (The importance of which is that he wanted to buy a business he did not design.) I envision where the holders of the Revel debt decide that Wynn can get them some equity back on their investment and this could be much less costly to Wynn as a way to re-enter the market. As well as much quicker.
I know very little about the Revel and Atlantic City situation, so I hope someone with real knowledge will comment about this.

November 25, 2012 8:12 PM Posted by detroit1051

Speaking of Christmas, Bellagio's Conservatory is already undergoing the changeover for Christmas. It's fun to watch the transformation at . Should be done by December 1st.

November 25, 2012 8:38 PM Posted by detroit1051

Jeff, I'm no expert on AC, but I'd be surprised if Revel succeeds or the city ever comes back. Too many other gaming options in the area. It seems to me that the entire NE part of the country has become a huge locals market, not a vacation destination. Sands Bethlehem has 3,000 slots and 183 tables. That's more than Revel.

Steve Wynn could become the leader on the river in Philadelphia's limited market, just as MGM Grand did in the Detroit market., I think Wynn wants and needs to be in a big urban center with air accessibility. Although AC is only 60 miles away, it's a hassle to fly into PHL and then have another hour's drive to AC.

We need Dr. Dave to give us his expert opinions.

November 28, 2012 6:36 AM Posted by Dr.Dave

I think the odds of Wynn taking it on are pretty long, mostly for the reasons Detroit has pointed out.

Revel's a lot like Cosmopolitan and CityCenter--designed for a market that no longer exists. I wouldn't be surprised in AC revenues are well below $3 billion in 2012, meaning that the market has declined by more than 40% since 2006. I'm frankly amazed that the casinos there have been so tenacious.

I'll repeat what I've been saying for the last ten years: the days of running that city as a collective slot machine day-tripping destination are gone. Forever. Never coming back. To survive, the city really has to do something different.

November 28, 2012 7:38 AM Posted by JeffinOKC

In that case, Dr. Dave, what should be done from now on to make Revel a success? It appears to me that the current management path isn't working.

November 28, 2012 1:59 PM Posted by Dave

Difficult. For one, the building isn't really finished--the Boardwalk retail area isn't done. If finished, it would draw pedestrian traffic from neighboring casinos. But doing that would require money, and who wants to invest in a casino in a declining market that's losing money?

November 29, 2012 10:03 AM Posted by Aaron

I would appreciate any comments on the Linq project; especially how construction will affect pedestrian traffic in 2013. I see that Bill's is closing in early 2013 for extensive remodeling. Combined with the Linq construction, will it even be possible to walk from Harrah's to Bally's? I'm sure anyone planning a trip in 2013 would appreciate your tips in this regard on where to stay to avoid hassles. Thanks.

December 5, 2012 2:09 PM Posted by Eric

Aaron, no matter how big the projects are (see CityCenter, Encore, etc.) pedestrian flow is maintained. Over the past 10 years of visiting Vegas, I've never seen pedestrian flow forced to cross and continue on the other side of the street. It may be claustrophobic, it may involve plywood tunnels, but there's always a way to walk from A to B.

For example, walking from Flamingo to Harrah's now (or at least, when I was there in September) involved a plywood tunnel that occupied the right lane of LV Blvd, with a single entrance into IP/Quad along the way.

The area between Bill's and Flamingo is a bit tighter, with the pedestrian overpasses and Flamingo Road intersection right there. Still, I'd be stunned if Caesars/Clark County didn't maintain a pedestrian right of way between Flamingo and Bally's on the east side of the Strip.

After all, if they close the sidewalk, where will drunken Mickey Mouse and Sponge Bob hang out? :D